Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

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Padipa
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by Padipa »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:32 am
MrLearner wrote: but this makes me depressed and not energetic to find liberation.
you already found liberation, at least the way to it


whereas most people haven't found the way
BINGO--crucial point!
Padipa
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by Padipa »

binocular wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:54 pm
MrLearner wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:44 amSo I have been questioning buddhism for a while now and come to realise infact it is the truth.
So you have been "questioning buddhism for a while now and come to realise infact it is the truth"? That's peculiar ...
To question Buddhism for a while and based on that come to realize that it's the truth -- but then becoming depressed?
Something doesn't seem right in this.
One can build up tremendous inertia seeking the truth, all of which (the inertia) is unwholesome, often addictive in nature. So I can understand where, for some, particularly in sudden-truth recognition, depression pours through as water through a bursting dam.

It's like being lost on a trail to the mountain top, coming to a lookout and seeing the correct direction in which you must now head, while simultaneously seeing you have been wasting all that time & energy heading in the complete opposite direction. It surely generates depression!
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StrivingforMonkhood
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by StrivingforMonkhood »

We never criticize ourselves for what we feel; neither do we feel ashamed for what we feel. We have no control over our feelings.

So, it's perfectly fine that you're experiencing depression, even though it's far from being a depressed state. You are not a depressed person - you are simply experiencing depression at this moment in time, which is constantly evolving.

You cannot get out of existence because your body only dies in each lifetime. You consciousness is continual. There is no beginning, nor is there any any end. Sure, there is no self, but your consciousness just passes from life to life to life.

Enlightenment is our purest state. That state is pure liberation. Our purest state is worth achieving, as it's our essence as human beings. You cannot run from this fact. Somehow, we are destined to enlightenment, even though many people will take several lifetimes to achieve.

Please practice the Dhamma and follow the holy Buddha's teachings correctly. Your state of mind now is very impermanent. Once you taste a tiny bit of enlightenment over time, you will what your essence was destined for after all. You will see the delusions that you had always been living with.

Please don't give up, as you will only set yourself back and go more deeply into delusion.

May you - like all of us - fulfill our deepest wish for the purest of happiness, our true essence.

Much love in the Dhamma.
May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness

We are already Buddha
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salayatananirodha
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by salayatananirodha »

if you begin seeing the drawbacks in cling-able phenomena then you will begin letting go and you will get happier, that's my theory
delight is deceptive
I host a sutta discussion via Zoom Sundays at 11AM Chicago time — message me if you are interested
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StrivingforMonkhood
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by StrivingforMonkhood »

befriend wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:01 am I was stupid enough to think I could base an entire relationship off of my Dhamma practice, knowledge and insights this turned out bad and I have lost a few friends with my constant blabbering of impermanence and not self to people whom are no longer my friends because it's really not interesting for people to hear unless their interested. you need to have other things to talk about than Buddhism if you want to function in society unless all your friends are Buddhists I guess. That's my experience.
Dear friend,

We have no choice who are workmates are. We cannot discuss Buddhism with people we are forced to be with, just as you said. They will think we're "out there." But we are not; we just are no longer ignorant about aspect of ultimate reality. Keep socialization with others who are no like-minded to a minimum. This is what Buddhist teachers say.

Our friends, however, should be like-minded with Buddhist values.

The more deeply we grow on the Path, we will become less and less social, finding full refuge in the Holy Buddha and his holy sangha.

Much love in the Dhamma
May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness

We are already Buddha
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samseva
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by samseva »

befriend wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:01 am I was stupid enough to think I could base an entire relationship off of my Dhamma practice, knowledge and insights this turned out bad and I have lost a few friends with my constant blabbering of impermanence and not self to people whom are no longer my friends because it's really not interesting for people to hear unless their interested. you need to have other things to talk about than Buddhism if you want to function in society unless all your friends are Buddhists I guess. That's my experience.
I have found it rarely ends up well discussing "religious" topics with non-Buddhist friends/family. People feel like you are proselytizing/trying to convert them (which is something many religious people actually do). I haven't talked to many people I know about Buddhism. My practice is my own, and other people in my life knowing about it is of no importance, and has no purpose whatsoever.

The furthest I usually go is explaining Buddhist concepts in vague and general terms (like "problems are part of life," etc.), to sometimes give advice to someone. Bringing in the context of what to them is a religion isn't a good idea, IMO. Reducing suffering, and ethical conduct isn't inherently Buddhist anyway—it's first and foremost human. :smile:
Last edited by samseva on Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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samseva
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by samseva »

MrLearner wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:44 am Hello everyone,
So I have been questioning buddhism for a while now and come to realise infact it is the truth. However my reaction is depression. I feel like this worldly things are useless but [...]
Whether you accept the teachings, or the existence of suffering to be true or not, suffering will be there either way. Re-confirming or denying the fact doesn't change anything.

The Buddha's teachings are:
1. a full acceptance that much of life is based in suffering, and
2. a practical method to reduce it as much as possible.

The second point is the most important. By doing less of the things that create suffering, and by developing positive mental qualities, the suffering/dukkha in your life will progressively lessen... This is what's important. However, one must first accept suffering before reducing it is possible.

The Buddhist path is one of joy and happiness. The absence of suffering is a state of happiness.

If you are finding that you are suffering more than before, you are doing or thinking of something incorrectly. Suffering and depression are in part caused by wrong views (i.e., ignorance). Having right view (sammā-diṭṭhi) will result in less suffering, and more positive states of mind. The goal and results of Buddhist practice is the reduction of suffering/dukkha, and to attain genuine happiness.
Ontheway
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by Ontheway »

Hi, OP. If you feel depressed about learning Dhamma, maybe you can change your approach to it. Maybe start from the teachings that give you joy, happiness and peace. That's a reason why the Buddha always gladden people's mind with gradual teachings, before going to the core Dhamma like Four Noble Truths, Dependent Origination, Eightfold Paths, etc.
...Then the Buddha taught him step by step, with a talk on giving, ethical conduct, and heaven. He explained the drawbacks of sensual pleasures, so sordid and corrupt, and the benefit of renunciation...
Brahmayu Sutta

Once you found the peace and joy, don't be contended with the current learning. Maybe can put into practice, discuss with Kalyana-mittas, and consider to embark on proper Pariyatti, Patipatti and Pativeda plan. Depends on your time and effort.

For me, I was not Buddhist by birth. In the beginning I was more like agnostic, then tried Mahayana & contemporary Theravada (I thought it was a cool stuff).

Then a bit of atheism & "only-science-makes-sense"(LOL wasted big chunk of time debating with creationists in school), and then I was amazed by the Book of Proverbs, took up Bible class. After approx. half a year, I come back to Theravada, but lost and confused with contemporary Theravada styled guru monks for about 10 years (why? Because teacher A said that, teacher B said this, teacher C said another, and teacher D said otherwise = no definite conclusion, only endless discussion and more 'newer' interpretation that contradictory to one another). I was depressed that time because I can't find any clarification.

Until approx. two years ago, I told myself: "Screw it. I will be 'heretic' for once." (That time, I was told by a certain Sri Lankan Buddhist teacher to abandon all Atthakatha, and this is the right thing to do. Well, I listened to him and others who said so. I thought those who read Abhidhamma & Atthakatha are 'heretics'.When I read Suttas, I don't bother to read the comments at all. I simply don't care. So basically I was a Dipitaka Buddhist. But again, I didn't care about Vinaya Pitaka too. That makes me Ekapitaka Buddhist.)

Later, as I decided to be 'heretical' a while, I tried to read some Abhidhamma articles with open mind, listen to Abhidhamma talks, read bits of Atthakatha texts scattered here and there online, take out my old copy of Visuddhimagga and read it... At first, I have to admit it is a very boring subject, and I always felt sleepy when I read those articles. Everyday, I took a hour or two to study and memorise Citta, Cetasika, and Rupa, making diagrams & little tests for myself, make correlation with Suttas, etc.) There, my doubts toward Abhidhamma lessen and I was able to solve many of my previous misunderstanding.

But my biggest doubt on the Paticca Samuppada's third link with regards to Abhidhamma diminished entirely when I first encounter Paṭhamabhavasutta. I was very happy and I can still remember that I was holding the Sutta book and walking in the house here and there, and my family members even asked me why I walking around and smiling like a mad man... Well, I can't explain to them, having understood something that bothered me for about 10 years, the happiness just came and so sudden.

If I may count, this "feel of happiness" occured twice since I encountered Dhamma in my life so far. One is when I first read Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta and Adittapariyaya sutta (in a small free gift Dhamma booklet), when I was around 16 years old if I am not mistaken. Next, it is this encounter with Pathamabhava Sutta.

Now, to someone else, these encounters wouldn't have any big deal but to me, they are.

So, I think OP you should find the teachings that you can obtain gladness from, something you think it is beneficial for you and can bring great joy to you. Once you found it, your depression will disappear.
Last edited by Ontheway on Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
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KZ8RT3
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by KZ8RT3 »

MrLearner wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:44 am Hello everyone,
So I have been questioning buddhism for a while now and come to realise infact it is the truth. However my reaction is depression. I feel like this worldly things are useless but this makes me depressed and not energetic to find liberation . I hope you all understand my question. I mean after realising buddhism is true i feel there are 2 paths.

1. Do meditation and find liberation
2. Be really depressed, ask yourself what is the point of life when it is suffering,why even try anything? Funny thing is i have wisdom to understand everything is temporary but this has made me depressed rather thab trying to find liberation.

I have fallen to path 2 unfortunately. How do I overcome path 2 and go to path 1. Thank you.
I have seen in myself that depression is a hindrance falling under Sloth. It is not that you are lazy, but depression is an excuse the mind uses to trick us off of the path. There are ways to combat this hindrance.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... html#sloth

Knowing the Dhamma does not take away depression, you have to apply the Dhamma. It is like looking at the prozac on your desk and wondering why your depression is not gone! You have to take it!

For me, I try to ignore those thoughts and keep up with the practice and studying. Also, take care of your health.

Also, next time you have a bad pain think of how lucky you are that everything is impermanent!
Padipa
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by Padipa »

Sam Vara wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:54 am
MrLearner wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:44 am Hello everyone,
So I have been questioning buddhism for a while now and come to realise infact it is the truth. However my reaction is depression. I feel like this worldly things are useless but this makes me depressed and not energetic to find liberation . I hope you all understand my question. I mean after realising buddhism is true i feel there are 2 paths.

1. Do meditation and find liberation
2. Be really depressed, ask yourself what is the point of life when it is suffering,why even try anything? Funny thing is i have wisdom to understand everything is temporary but this has made me depressed rather thab trying to find liberation.

I have fallen to path 2 unfortunately. How do I overcome path 2 and go to path 1. Thank you.
Consider that life is not only suffering, but also has many opportunities for happiness and feeling good about yourself. For example, being generous, monitoring your behaviour, and cultivating happy thoughts about people make us feel good, and are also part of the path to liberation.

If you find some aspects of the teaching are depressing, then concentrate on those which are uplifting. The Dhamma is supposed to be " beautiful at the beginning, beautiful in the middle, and beautiful at the end".
Excellent advice IMO. Depression has inertia attached to it; it is very difficult to overcome. However, with the Truth, you can make a plan to replace the negative inertia of depression, with the positive inertia of the wellness which grows from Buddhist self cultivation. This happens, much like a baby learns to walk ie., not all at once. Rather, it is a slow process infused with falls. But, if you are persistent, the inertia of falling eventually is transformed into the inertia of walking. So, in a similar way, is the birth from the womb of Buddhist wisdom. You must earn this--it is not something you can buy--that is why it is so priceless, so rewarding. It particularly becomes rewarding when you can shine the light of wisdom onto others, to warm and grow them.

So, you asked "what is the point." The point is the Truth comes with responsibility. Once you have it, the point is to cultivate it to the point where you are strong enough to help others: "You can never help someone else, without helping yourself." The point is, we are all interconnected--what we do affects everyone & everything else. If you want peace, work for peace--if you want compassion, work for compassion.

I''ll finish with a couple of age-old sayings. "The greatest journey begins with the 1st step." And, if "We are what we eat," how much more must we be what we think? So train your mind to cultivate wellness and you will find wellness. jt
bpallister
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by bpallister »

MrLearner wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:44 am Hello everyone,
So I have been questioning buddhism for a while now and come to realise infact it is the truth. However my reaction is depression. I feel like this worldly things are useless but this makes me depressed and not energetic to find liberation . I hope you all understand my question. I mean after realising buddhism is true i feel there are 2 paths.

1. Do meditation and find liberation
2. Be really depressed, ask yourself what is the point of life when it is suffering,why even try anything? Funny thing is i have wisdom to understand everything is temporary but this has made me depressed rather thab trying to find liberation.

I have fallen to path 2 unfortunately. How do I overcome path 2 and go to path 1. Thank you.
This is an easy question to answer, as you've answered it yourself. 1. Do meditation. I wouldn't worry about finding liberation. Just focus on the meditation. I hope this can be helpful
dhammapal
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by dhammapal »

MrLearner wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:44 am Hello everyone,
So I have been questioning buddhism for a while now and come to realise infact it is the truth. However my reaction is depression. I feel like this worldly things are useless but this makes me depressed and not energetic to find liberation . I hope you all understand my question. I mean after realising buddhism is true i feel there are 2 paths.

1. Do meditation and find liberation
2. Be really depressed, ask yourself what is the point of life when it is suffering,why even try anything? Funny thing is i have wisdom to understand everything is temporary but this has made me depressed rather thab trying to find liberation.

I have fallen to path 2 unfortunately. How do I overcome path 2 and go to path 1. Thank you.
Most people, even some monks, aren't ready for the four noble truths in the Buddha's graduated discourse (giving, virtue, heaven, drawbacks, renunciation, four noble truths).

See the humorous Nanda Sutta, including the Buddha's quote to Ven Nanda “Then take joy, Nanda. Take joy! I am your guarantor for getting 500 dove-footed nymphs.”
dooksta123
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by dooksta123 »

I'm a returning Buddhist after many years of straying from the path. I left because I had the same questions you do. My ultimate takeaway making distance and coming back is that you are a lay practitioner. As a layperson and not a monk, you're not expected to reach enlightenment tomorrow or the day after. Buddhism is the true path in my opinion as well, but the world is not built in a way in the current moment to welcome an easy path to enlightenment for lay people. When I was practicing for three years, I made myself miserable studying suttas designed for monks instead of designed for lay people. We're lay people, which means we're exposed to the world, and there's a lot of pleasure and joy in the world to be sought. The idea of Buddhism for us is to enjoy life and the pleasures it offers but have the wisdom to realize that attachment to these pleasure can lead to suffering. This does not mean that the joys of those indulgences can't be pleasant and rich, just realize their impermanence. Enjoy your life, it's fleeting every moment. Hope this helps.
yinyangkoi
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by yinyangkoi »

You are deluded. Let go of what you read and practice meditation and be present every moment. It is not reality it is a concept you are holding onto. Reality is the clear water and the warm sun
JohnSo
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Re: Ok buddhism is true but my reaction is depression

Post by JohnSo »

Hi Mr. Learner,

Learning The Teaching of The Buddha requires a complete process ie.:

1. Understand the meaning of 'Dukkha' theoritically.

2. Understanding what is the source of 'Dukkha' theoritically.

3. Understand that 'Dukkha' can be stopped theorically

4. Practically observe those 3 points above & realize those 3 points above.

Finish the process. Do not read to many books. Read the essential ones and practice it asap. Reading to much, may make people 'off-track' and hallucinating or deluding even deeper.

The truth is 'inside' covered by your unawarenes or unconsciousness. Practice what the Buddha had taught 2500 years ago, and the truth 'inside' unravelled for you by your own. The mystery was opened. It is some kind of opening a book, page by page.

Good luck
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