How long to attain first jhana?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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confusedlayman
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Re: How long to attain first jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

I can see only few people claim arhantship based on meditation induced insight so only their method is true? because other jhana practitioners dont achieve liberation using jhana so its something else?

only when someone has 4 stage insight or some mundane extra powers, we can know they are doing jhana properly or else can't be known.
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
xiaosun666
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Re: How long to attain first jhana?

Post by xiaosun666 »

Mr. Seek wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:51 pm
coconut wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:40 pmI don't think I've ever seen a sutta discouraging anapanasati.
I interpret AN 11.9 Saddha Sutta as discouraging meditation dependent on breath (wind) and any other objects. Also, many detailed texts, such as DN 2, don't ever mention mindfulness of breath, or any other such meditation objects that one ought to take up, as being part of the road to jhana proper and unbinding. It's understandable that a short SN or AN sutta wouldn't contain every little detail, but I don't see why a DN sutta would forget something that is deemed so important. Some long MN suttas detailing the path to unbinding don't mention meditating with an object either. This is the reason for my doubt.

Thank you for the replies and advice nonetheless though!
great, I noticed the same thing here. Buddha never really talked about using a meditation object when he described the MN suttas. Instead, in one MN sutta he mentioned many times that people recall their sila, they feel glad, people recall the buddha, dharma etc they feel glad and then the gladness lead to the tranquility and tranqulity leads to the pleasure, pleasure leads to concentration. Also, if you read the AN11.1 and AN11.2, the buddha says very clearly there is no volition here only the dharma presents itself step by step. This is so obvious the way of "nondoing" instead of "doing ". This type of jhana is so different than anything else I see from online.

I figured out that the buddha just told us exactly what it should be in the sutta without any additional interpretation. When you are secluded from the desire and world, you are absent of the five hindrances through percepts and sense guiding, then you are in the right status of the body and mind. The budda said when people clearly see such bright minds, gladness arises, which leads to tranquality, which leads to pleasure which leads to concentration.

So what will happen if you get such jhana? Interesting is here, this jhana is the "jhana of clearly see and knowing". In the first jhana, you clearly see the thinking and pondering, what are these? when the sound arises for example the bird is singing outside, you will automatically notice the thinking around that sound, you notice the sound of the bird, you notice the perception of a bird you have when you automatically heard the sound. This the first jhana experience when you see or listen. This leads to the clearly knowing that this type of thinking and pondering around the sound or sight, is a burden. You drop the tendency of thinking, which leads to the second jhana, the holy silence. Here you still hear the bird singing but right now sound is the only sound itself, like buddha talked many times here, "just these dhamas". there is no more concept around the contact of six senses and your whole mind is absent of the story or concept around the "contacts". This provides the good foundation of "clearly seeing and knowing", which leads to the real knowledge.
xiaosun666
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Re: How long to attain first jhana?

Post by xiaosun666 »

Buddha never really talked about using a meditation object when he described the MN suttas. Instead, in one MN sutta he mentioned many times that people recall their sila, they feel glad, people recall the buddha, dharma etc they feel glad and then the gladness lead to the tranquility and tranqulity leads to the pleasure, pleasure leads to concentration. Also, if you read the AN11.1 and AN11.2, the buddha says very clearly there is no volition here only the dharma presents itself step by step. This is so obvious the way of "nondoing" instead of "doing ". This type of jhana is so different than anything else I see from online.

I figured out that the buddha just told us exactly what it should be in the sutta without any additional interpretation. When you are secluded from the desire and world, you are absent of the five hindrances through percepts and sense guiding, then you are in the right status of the body and mind. The budda said when people clearly see such bright minds, gladness arises, which leads to tranquality, which leads to pleasure which leads to concentration.

So what will happen if you get such jhana? Interesting is here, this jhana is the "jhana of clearly see and knowing". In the first jhana, you clearly see the thinking and pondering, what are these? when the sound arises for example the bird is singing outside, you will automatically notice the thinking around that sound, you notice the sound of the bird, you notice the perception of a bird you have when you automatically heard the sound. This the first jhana experience when you see or listen. This leads to the clearly knowing that this type of thinking and pondering around the sound or sight, is a burden. You drop the tendency of thinking, which leads to the second jhana, the holy silence. Here you still hear the bird singing but right now sound is the only sound itself, like buddha talked many times here, "just these dhamas". there is no more concept around the contact of six senses and your whole mind is absent of the story or concept around the "contacts". This provides the good foundation of "clearly seeing and knowing", which leads to the real knowledge.
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confusedlayman
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Re: How long to attain first jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

Entering first jhana takes 10 min for someone, 1 second for someone and 1 hour for someone...
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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