What experiences Nirvana?

[Spiny Norman]

What apprehends Nirvana, if consciousness and awareness are just aggregates. How can something be apprehended without sentience?

Good question. The suttas don't really explain this.
It seems like the conditioned experiences the unconditioned, or something.

[cappuccino]

The suttas don't really explain this.

Consciousness without feature,
without end,
luminous all around:
Here water, earth, fire, & wind
have no footing.

Kevatta Sutta

[Ceisiwr]

The suttas don't really explain this.

Consciousness without feature,
without end,
luminous all around:
Here water, earth, fire, & wind
have no footing.

Kevatta (Kevaddha) Sutta

All consciousness is dependently originated, impermanent, dukkha and empty.

[cappuccino]

All consciousness is dependently originated, impermanent, dukkha and empty.

Apparently not

MN 49 mentions that it "does not partake in the allness of the All" — the "All" meaning the six internal and six external sense media (see SN 35.23). In this it differs from the consciousness factor in dependent co-arising, which is defined in terms of the six sense media. Lying outside of time and space, it would also not come under the consciousness-aggregate, which covers all consciousness near and far; past, present, and future.

[Ceisiwr]

All consciousness is dependently originated, impermanent, dukkha and empty.

Apparently not

MN 49 mentions that it "does not partake in the allness of the All" — the "All" meaning the six internal and six external sense media (see SN 35.23). In this it differs from the consciousness factor in dependent co-arising, which is defined in terms of the six sense media. Lying outside of time and space, it would also not come under the consciousness-aggregate, which covers all consciousness near and far; past, present, and future.

I prefer the Buddha

[cappuccino]

I prefer the Buddha

Who said nirvana is safety


Your annihilation preference is total disaster


You merely think it is a refuge

[Ceisiwr]

Who said nirvana is safety

Yes, which isn’t consciousness.

Your annihilation preference is total disaster

Straw man fallacy.

“Bhikkhu, there is no form … no feeling … no perception … no volitional formations … no consciousness that is permanent, stable, eternal, not subject to change, and that will remain the same just like eternity itself.” - SN 22.97

This conversation though, now that is eternal

[cappuccino]

SN 22.97

no consciousness that is …

not subject to change, and that will remain the same just like eternity itself

[Ceisiwr]

SN 22.97

not subject to change, and that will remain the same just like eternity itself

Therefore, all consciousness is impermanent (or inconstant, if you prefer). All impermanent/inconstant things are…

[cappuccino]

Therefore, all consciousness is impermanent

Yes, it changes

[Ceisiwr]

Therefore, all consciousness is impermanent

Yes, it changes

Therefore it’s dukkha. Something to be let go of, to fade away and cease and is not nibbana. It’s dependently originated, a disease.

[cappuccino]

Therefore it’s dukkha, something to be let go of

how will you let go of your consciousness?

[Ceisiwr]

Therefore it’s dukkha, something to be let go of

how will you let go of your consciousness?

By seeing how it’s dependently originated and so seeing the danger in it, to become disgusted and repelled by it.

[cappuccino]

By seeing how it’s dependently originated and so seeing the danger in it, to become disgusted and repelled by it.

I do not think you comprehend dependent arising


It is not about annihilation

[Ceisiwr]

By seeing how it’s dependently originated and so seeing the danger in it, to become disgusted and repelled by it.

I do not think you comprehend dependent arising


It is not about annihilation

Straw man.

As you said, all consciousness is impermanent/inconstant

(9) “And what, Ānanda, is the perception of impermanence in all conditioned phenomena? Here, a bhikkhu is repelled, humiliated, and disgusted by all conditioned phenomena. This is called the perception of impermanence in all conditioned phenomena. - AN 10.60