What is sense restraint?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SarathW
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What is sense restraint?

Post by SarathW »

What is sense restraint?
Is it suppressing five hindrances? Ie restraint citta Sankhara.
Is it garding five senses ie restraint Kaya Sankharaand Vaci Sankhara? Ie observe five precepts and eight precepts.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
form
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by form »

When eye contact form, it does not lust over the sign and features...... and so on.
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confusedlayman
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by confusedlayman »

form wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:45 am When eye contact form, it does not lust over the sign and features...... and so on.
true
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Alino
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by Alino »

As i understand and practice, sense restraint imply the use of the 3 aspects of our practice: Sila, Samadhi and Panna.

Sila aspect is when we take 8 precepts and when greed avertion or delusion toward some sense object appear in our mind - we dont follow what it want us to do. = Dont perpetuate our past unwholesome kamma.

Samadhi aspect, as composure of mind, is when we train our mind to be mindfull and keep composure in our daily life, so doing that we prevent it from losing balance while sense stimulations hit our mind. = Dont create new unwholesome kamma.

Panna aspect enters the game while we see kilesas as impermanent, unsatisfactory and without owner. This direct vision is naturally born from practice of Sila (dont following kilesas, let them go and there fore create necessary distance and perspective on them) and from practice of Samadhi (because compose mind is like a cold chewing gum - it dont cling to objects it touches), so you can create and develop this distance and perspective on arising mental or bodily phenomenas and let the mind observe them again and again from secure distance as impermanent, unsatisfactory and ownerless phenomenas, until the day when there will be enought collected data to realise these 3 qualities of phenomenas on deep level...

But it is impossible to create this perspective on mind and bodily objects if we constantly follow them, or if you constantly agitate your mind through senses. Sila and Samadhi is about creating perspective on phenomenas, Panna is about desenchantement and freedom.

It's like playing a game. If we wear a 3D helmet - we are complitely immersed in it. And if we take of the helmet and play it on the TV screen - it have less immersive power. But if we take our old 8-Bit SEGA with all pixels visible on it - there is almost no any immersion left, so you can leave and get free from this addiction.
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
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DooDoot
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:29 am Is it garding five senses ie restraint Kaya Sankharaand Vaci Sankhara? Ie observe five precepts and eight precepts.
Sense restraint is guarding the sense doors so defilements do not arise in relation to sense objects, such as sexual lust arising from the form of a sexy lady

However, if sense restraint fails and the mind has sexual fantasies about a sexy lady, even if the sexy lady is married, this does not appear to be transgression of sila

It appears thoughts are not part of the sila component of the noble eightfold path

The sila component of the noble path is right speech, right action & right livelihood

Right thought is the 2nd factor of the path and appears not part of sila training

:smile:

However, i do recall i read somewhere Jesus the Christian and also Buddhaghosa included mind as part of sila. Jesus said:
Jesus wrote:
You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... rsion=NKJV
Buddhaghosa wrote:48. Proper conduct should be understood in the opposite sense to that.
Furthermore, a bhikkhu is respectful, deferential, possessed of conscience and
shame, wears his inner robe properly, wears his upper robe properly, his manner
inspires confidence whether in moving forwards or backwards, looking ahead or
aside, bending or stretching, his eyes are downcast, he has (a good) deportment,
he guards the doors of his sense faculties, knows the right measure in eating, is
devoted to wakefulness, possesses mindfulness and full awareness, wants little, is
contented, is strenuous, is a careful observer of good behaviour, and treats the
teachers with great respect. This is called (proper) conduct.
This firstly is how (proper) conduct should be understood.

49. (Proper) resort is of three kinds: (proper) resort as support, (proper) resort as
guarding, and (proper) resort as anchoring. Herein, what is (proper) resort as
support? A good friend who exhibits the instances of talk,12 in whose presence one
hears what has not been heard, corrects what has been heard, gets rid of doubt,
rectifies one’s view, and gains confidence; or by training under whom one grows
in faith, virtue, learning, generosity and understanding—this is called (proper) resort
as support.

50. What is (proper) resort as guarding? Here “A bhikkhu, having entered inside
a house, having gone into a street, goes with downcast eyes, seeing the length of a
plough yoke, restrained, not looking at an elephant, not looking at a horse, a carriage,
a pedestrian, a woman, a man, not looking up, not looking down, not staring this
way and that” (Nidd I 474). This is called (proper) resort as guarding.

Page 21 from CHAPTER I Description of Virtue: https://www.urbandharma.org/pdf1/Pathof ... on2011.pdf
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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SteRo
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by SteRo »

SarathW wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:29 am What is sense restraint?
A misunderstanding.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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mjaviem
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by mjaviem »

As I understand it, being content with little is sense restraint. It happens that you don't need more.

Sense restraint is about avoiding contact with objects that can arise passionate reactions and I think you should also not be discontent about this.
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SarathW
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by SarathW »

What is the Pali word for sense restraint? Is there s Dutta about sense restraint?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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mikenz66
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by mikenz66 »

SarathW wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:03 pm What is the Pali word for sense restraint? Is there s Dutta about sense restraint?
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.120
And how does someone guard the sense doors?
Kathañcāvuso, indriyesu guttadvāro hoti?
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Mike
SarathW
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by SarathW »

:goodpost: Mike
It appears to me that sense restraint include both solar and Samdhi.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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mikenz66
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by mikenz66 »

SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:00 am :goodpost: Mike
It appears to me that sense restraint include both solar and Samdhi.
Solar?
Image
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one_awakening
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by one_awakening »

mjaviem wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:38 pm
Sense restraint is about avoiding contact with objects that can arise passionate reactions and I think you should also not be discontent about this.
Avoidance can be part of sense restraint but if you avoid contact with desirable sense objects you can't learn how these objects cause suffering.
“You only lose what you cling to”
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mikenz66
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by mikenz66 »

one_awakening wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:31 am
mjaviem wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:38 pm
Sense restraint is about avoiding contact with objects that can arise passionate reactions and I think you should also not be discontent about this.
Avoidance can be part of sense restraint but if you avoid contact with desirable sense objects you can't learn how these objects cause suffering.
Yes, it seems to be a training, rather than simply avoidance:
And how does someone guard the sense doors?
When a mendicant sees a sight with the eyes, they don’t get caught up in the features and details.
If the faculty of sight were left unrestrained, bad unskillful qualities of desire and aversion would become overwhelming. For this reason, they practice restraint, protecting the faculty of sight, and achieving its restraint.
...
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.120/en/sujato
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Mike
SarathW
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by SarathW »

mikenz66 wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:30 am
SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:00 am :goodpost: Mike
It appears to me that sense restraint include both solar and Samdhi.
Solar?
Image
For apple 🍎 it seems Sila =Solar
😀
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
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Re: What is sense restraint?

Post by SarathW »

one_awakening wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:31 am
mjaviem wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:38 pm
Sense restraint is about avoiding contact with objects that can arise passionate reactions and I think you should also not be discontent about this.
Avoidance can be part of sense restraint but if you avoid contact with desirable sense objects you can't learn how these objects cause suffering.
So it is Ok to indulge in sensual pleasures to learn about suffering.
:twothumbsup:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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