03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Lucas Oliveira
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03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

The Buddha says that the Beings are infinite..

On 03/19/2021 an interview with the Director of US Intelligence during the Trump Administration, John Ratcliffe, was broadcast on Fox News TV.

Ratcliffe said there is much more information about unidentified aerial phenomena than the public knows, but some of that information will be revealed on June 1, 2021.



US intelligence agencies have 180 days to share what they know about UFOs, thanks to the Covid-19 relief and spending bill
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/10/us/u ... index.html

:alien: :spy:

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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Lucas Oliveira wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:44 pm US intelligence agencies have 180 days...
These dates, although they sound like hard deadlines, usually bend or get pushed out indefinitely, so I wouldn't hold your breath. Otherwise, the full JFK files would have been declassified ten times over by now.

Anyway, yes, if anything does come of it, it might be interesting to compare what is released to Buddhist cosmology.

Metta,
Paul. :)
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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Post by Ceisiwr »

“US has 'secret evidence of UFOs breaking sound barrier without a sonic boom and performing moves humans don't have the technology for', says Trump's Director of National Intelligence”

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dail ... eport.html
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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Lucas Oliveira wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:44 pm The Buddha says that the Beings are infinite..
For clarification, this "connection" established in the OP is the only basis upon which this topic falls within the scope of DWT. If anyone wants to talk about technology etc., DWE would be better for that.

Metta,
Paul. :)
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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

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it doesn't matter as they might not do anything to us if we radiate metta ...
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Post by Bundokji »

How would the existence or non-existence of UFOs affect the Buddhist concept of samsara?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Bundokji wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:14 am How would the existence or non-existence of UFOs affect the Buddhist concept of samsara?
I'd suggest it would be the potential navigators of said UFOs that would be of more significance to a cosmology than the UFOs themselves. Sure, it's not going to change anything about the 4NT etc. but Buddhist cosmology and the classes of beings and realms therein is part of Buddhism.

Metta,
Paul. :)
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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Post by Bundokji »

retrofuturist wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:23 am I'd suggest it would be the potential navigators of said UFOs that would be of more significance to a cosmology than the UFOs themselves. Sure, it's not going to change anything about the 4NT etc. but Buddhist cosmology and the classes of beings and realms therein is part of Buddhism.
The classes of beings in Buddhism indicate different relationships with time more than a purposive or moral relationship. For example, Mara is often described as an evil one, but he is a god nonetheless and probably enjoys more refined existence than humans. The interactions between the Buddha and Mara in the texts do not reflect hostility or enmity, even when the term "evil one" is being used. He is still subject to impermanence but his life span is longer. Another non-linearity is that lower realms are longer in terms of human time than the human realm, but less refined.

We have the tendency to think of aliens as higher than us due to how we perceive hierarchy. The logic goes: If they reached us before we do, then they must have higher abilities or higher degrees of control, but this does not have to be the case.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Post by Coëmgenu »

If, against all odds, foreign world-systems turned out to be "distant galaxies" or "solar systems," it would mean that most of the cosmological material in the buddhavacana is materially wrong and all of the measurements are woefully off. It is perfectly reasonable in the Buddhist worldview to say there are no "aliens," because when people do dubious past life regression hypnotherapy, they always remember being people in the past, not aliens. It's always "Oh, you were a pretty princess, but you burned books, so now you have trouble reading." It's never, "You struck your husband with your alien body's third tentacle, the one with the poison barbs, in his stomach gland on the top of his face, so now you'll always have indigestion." That never seems to happen when you have "psychic monks" telling peoples' fortunes based on supposed psychic visions of their past life. It's always, "You were a great king" or "You were a impoverished pauper." It's never, "You were a gravitation-based entity living in the core of a black hole." It seems like "people are always people," as if "humans are everywhere." I take this is extremely soft circumstantial evidence that "parallel worlds" are more likely the other world-systems than "alien galaxies and stellar systems." Parallel realities would also explain how every world-system supposedly has an India, etc., and how all world-systems appear to be populated by "people." But that's just my personal take. If "There are no aliens," then the unintelligent space we see around us populated with insentient objects (like unpopulated planets etc.) would be the "lokantarikā aghā asaṃvutā andhakārā andhakāratimisā," or "darkest darkness boundless between the lokas" (MN123 paraphrase, see "the boundless desolation of interstellar space"). Another point, when the Buddha remembers his past abodes, he is described as remembering names, clans (i.e. families), etc. He never remembers an extensive amount of lives as, for instance, amoebae who conjugate instead of conventionally reproducing. Cells that replicate themselves via conjugation instead of intercourse have no "clans/families," much less "names." Alien biologies, we can imagine, could feature things like conjugation instead of sexual reproduction, since we find this kind of diversity on earth let alone on other orbs. The last point isn't the hardest of them. Just what's on my mind vis-a-vis aliens and the Dharma.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Post by salayatananirodha »

Bundokji wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:13 am The interactions between the Buddha and Mara in the texts do not reflect hostility or enmity, even when the term "evil one" is being used.
http://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/pts ... rn.pts.htm
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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

Bundokji wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:14 am How would the existence or non-existence of UFOs affect the Buddhist concept of samsara?
retrofuturist wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:23 am Greetings,
Bundokji wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:14 am How would the existence or non-existence of UFOs affect the Buddhist concept of samsara?
I'd suggest it would be the potential navigators of said UFOs that would be of more significance to a cosmology than the UFOs themselves. Sure, it's not going to change anything about the 4NT etc. but Buddhist cosmology and the classes of beings and realms therein is part of Buddhism.

Metta,
Paul. :)
The Buddha's Dhamma is Universal
In Buddhism dharma means cosmic law and order,[10][12] but is also applied to the teachings of the Buddha.[10][12] In Buddhist philosophy, dhamma/dharma is also the term for "phenomena".[13][12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma#Buddhism
AN 3.134

Dhamma-niyama Sutta

The Discourse on the Orderliness of the Dhamma

"Monks, whether or not there is the arising of Tathagatas, this property stands — this steadfastness of the Dhamma, this orderliness of the Dhamma: All processes are inconstant.

"The Tathagata directly awakens to that, breaks through to that. Directly awakening & breaking through to that, he declares it, teaches it, describes it, sets it forth. He reveals it, explains it, & makes it plain: All processes are inconstant.

"Whether or not there is the arising of Tathagatas, this property stands — this steadfastness of the Dhamma, this orderliness of the Dhamma: All processes are stressful.

"The Tathagata directly awakens to that, breaks through to that. Directly awakening & breaking through to that, he declares it, teaches it, describes it, sets it forth. He reveals it, explains it, & makes it plain: All processes are stressful.

"Whether or not there is the arising of Tathagatas, this property stands — this steadfastness of the Dhamma, this orderliness of the Dhamma: All phenomena are not-self.[1]

"The Tathagata directly awakens to that, breaks through to that. Directly awakening & breaking through to that, he declares it, teaches it, describes it, sets it forth. He reveals it, explains it, & makes it plain: All phenomena are not-self."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ati/tip ... .than.html
the 3 marks of Existence
ti-lakkhaṇa

Three characteristics inherent in all conditioned phenomena — being inconstant (anicca), stressful (dukkha), and not-self (anattā).

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/glossary.html#t
Three kinds of dukkha

"There are these three forms of stressfulness, my friend: the stressfulness of pain, the stressfulness of fabrication, the stressfulness of change. These are the three forms of stressfulness."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dha ... ukkha.html
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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

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Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:46 pm If, against all odds, foreign world-systems turned out to be "distant galaxies" or "solar systems," it would mean that most of the cosmological material in the buddhavacana is materially wrong and all of the measurements are woefully off. It is perfectly reasonable in the Buddhist worldview to say there are no "aliens," because when people do dubious past life regression hypnotherapy, they always remember being people in the past, not aliens. It's always "Oh, you were a pretty princess, but you burned books, so now you have trouble reading." It's never, "You struck your husband with your alien body's third tentacle, the one with the poison barbs, in his stomach gland on the top of his face, so now you'll always have indigestion." That never seems to happen when you have "psychic monks" telling peoples' fortunes based on supposed psychic visions of their past life. It's always, "You were a great king" or "You were a impoverished pauper." It's never, "You were a gravitation-based entity living in the core of a black hole." It seems like "people are always people," as if "humans are everywhere." I take this is extremely soft circumstantial evidence that "parallel worlds" are more likely the other world-systems than "alien galaxies and stellar systems." Parallel realities would also explain how every world-system supposedly has an India, etc., and how all world-systems appear to be populated by "people." But that's just my personal take. If "There are no aliens," then the unintelligent space we see around us populated with insentient objects (like unpopulated planets etc.) would be the "lokantarikā aghā asaṃvutā andhakārā andhakāratimisā," or "darkest darkness boundless between the lokas" (MN123 paraphrase, see "the boundless desolation of interstellar space"). Another point, when the Buddha remembers his past abodes, he is described as remembering names, clans (i.e. families), etc. He never remembers an extensive amount of lives as, for instance, amoebae who conjugate instead of conventionally reproducing. Cells that replicate themselves via conjugation instead of intercourse have no "clans/families," much less "names." Alien biologies, we can imagine, could feature things like conjugation instead of sexual reproduction, since we find this kind of diversity on earth let alone on other orbs. The last point isn't the hardest of them. Just what's on my mind vis-a-vis aliens and the Dharma.
Buddhist cosmology of the Theravada school

Human Beings (manussa loka)

5 - Human (manussa loka): Birth in this plane results from giving and moral discipline of middling quality. This is the realm of moral choice where destiny can be guided. The Khana Sutta mentioned that this plane is a unique balance of pleasure and pain. It facilitates the development of virtue and wisdom to liberate oneself from the entire cycle or rebirths. For this reason rebirth as a human being is considered precious according to the Chiggala Sutta.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_ ... ada_school
The Characteristics of Humans may well be the Characteristics of Some Species of Aliens.
Humans (Homo sapiens) are a species of highly intelligent primates. They are the only extant members of the subtribe Hominina and—together with chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans—are part of the family Hominidae (the great apes, or hominids). Humans are terrestrial animals, characterized by their erect posture and bipedal locomotion; high manual dexterity and heavy tool use compared to other animals; open-ended and complex language use compared to other animal communications; larger, more complex brains than other primates; and highly advanced and organized societies.[3][4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human
some recluse or a brahmin, by means of ardour, endeavour, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated, [purified, clarified, unblemished, devoid of corruptions], he recollects his numerous past lives: that is, (he recollects) one birth, two, three, four, or five births; ten, twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty births; a hundred, a thousand, or a hundred thousand births; many hundreds of births, many thousands of births, many hundreds of thousands of births. (He recalls:) ‘Then I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose here.’ Thus he recollects his numerous past lives in their modes and their details.
...

a certain recluse or brahmin, by means of ardour, endeavour, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated he recollects his numerous past lives: that is, (he recollects his past lives throughout) one aeon of world-contraction and expansion (expansion and contraction of the Universe) , throughout two, three, four, five, or ten aeons of world-contraction and expansion. (He recalls:) ‘Then I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose here.’ Thus he recollects his numerous past lives in their modes and their details.

https://suttacentral.net/dn1/en/bodhi
This quote can also be used to explain many types of births on other planets and alien families
(He recalls:) ‘Then I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose here.’ Thus he recollects his numerous past lives in their modes and their details.
Image
Poll Says Species You'd Want to Belong to Is...
https://intl.startrek.com/article/poll- ... long-to-is
...
It is perfectly reasonable in the Buddhist worldview to say there are no "aliens," because when people do dubious past life regression hypnotherapy, they always remember being people in the past, not aliens. It's always "Oh, you were a pretty princess, but you burned books, so now you have trouble reading." It's never, "You struck your husband with your alien body's third tentacle, the one with the poison barbs, in his stomach gland on the top of his face, so now you'll always have indigestion." That never seems to happen when you have "psychic monks" telling peoples' fortunes based on supposed psychic visions of their past life. It's always, "You were a great king" or "You were an impoverished pauper." It's never, "You were a gravitation-based entity living in the core of a black hole." It seems like "people are always people," as if "humans are everywhere." I take this is extremely soft circumstantial evidence that "parallel worlds" are more likely the other world-systems than "alien galaxies and stellar systems."
There are reports of past lives on other planets
20-year-old Russian Man Named Boriska Mipriyanovich Says he Lived on Mars Before Being Reborn on Earth
He further said that the Martians can execute interstellar travel. His mother said that the man used to talk about aliens when he was a child and nobody taught him about Mars.
https://www.india.com/news/world/20-yea ... h-2610723/
FBI report: Nikola Tesla, inventor of wireless technology, an alien from Venus
https://epochtimes.today/fbi-report-nik ... rom-venus/
https://vault.fbi.gov/nikola-tesla/Niko ... %20of%2003
If we can be reborn in the animal world with infinite different species ..

the same goes for lives on other planets and in different species.

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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Post by Coëmgenu »

Lucas Oliveira wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:38 pmThere are reports of past lives on other planets
20-year-old Russian Man Named Boriska Mipriyanovich Says he Lived on Mars Before Being Reborn on Earth
He further said that the Martians can execute interstellar travel. His mother said that the man used to talk about aliens when he was a child and nobody taught him about Mars.
https://www.india.com/news/world/20-yea ... h-2610723/
I suppose it's possible that this man lived on Mars before. I haven't yet read the link. It brings up another question, where are the Martians now? But it is possible they are long-extinct. I suppose it's possible they are there and we just "can't see" them, but all of these explanations strike me as less likely ones. Perhaps, if I read the link, it discusses some of these possibilities. I don't "not believe" in aliens. I don't know if there are aliens or not. It seems statistically more likely than not that there would be some kind of alien life in this reality.

What I was meaning to communicate in the post responded to is that "another worlds" and "infinite beings" on them could refer to other planets in the universe, but it would also refer to a multiverse and/or parallel dimensions. There are a few things that make me personally think that parallel dimensions seems to be closer to what is described with the phrase "other worlds," but I could well be quite wrong concerning this. It isn't something I've hung my hat on, which is to say it isn't a stance I've doubled-down on and hold dearly. "Other worlds" could easily refer to alien planets.
Lucas Oliveira wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:38 pmIf we can be reborn in the animal world with infinite different species ..

the same goes for lives on other planets and in different species.
Well, a parallel reality, if it were sufficiently "parallel," would necessarily also have planets in it. Something to consider. I'm not saying it's a solid thesis.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

In this video Bob Dean (U.S. Army as a Command Sergeant Major) talks about four groups of aliens.

first group that looks a lot like humans

second group that are interplanetary

third Intergalactic group

and fourth group, multidimensional beings


Robert Orel Dean (March 2, 1929 – October 11, 2018)

Dean retired from the U.S. Army as a Command Sergeant Major after a 28-year career. He appeared on radio programs, TV documentaries and at conferences discussing the subject of UFOs and a government cover up of alien visitations to Earth.[1] Dean claimed to have viewed a classified government document called "The Assessment" that allegedly discussed threats posed by alien activity on Earth, and concluded that no such threats existed.[2] Dean said he considers himself a professional UFO researcher and had "cosmic top secret" clearance while in the military. In 1992 while employed as emergency services coordinator for Pima County, Arizona, Dean sued his employer for discrimination, saying he was treated unfairly because of his belief in UFOs, and because of his age, reportedly settling for $100,000.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dean_(ufologist)
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Re: 03/19/2021 Fox News: Ex-Us Director of Intelligence speaks about UFOs

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

Lucas Oliveira wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:38 pm
Buddhist cosmology of the Theravada school

Human Beings (manussa loka)

5 - Human (manussa loka): Birth in this plane results from giving and moral discipline of middling quality. This is the realm of moral choice where destiny can be guided. The Khana Sutta mentioned that this plane is a unique balance of pleasure and pain. It facilitates the development of virtue and wisdom to liberate oneself from the entire cycle or rebirths. For this reason rebirth as a human being is considered precious according to the Chiggala Sutta.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_ ... ada_school
The Characteristics of Humans may well be the Characteristics of Some Species of Aliens.
Humans (Homo sapiens) are a species of highly intelligent primates. They are the only extant members of the subtribe Hominina and—together with chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans—are part of the family Hominidae (the great apes, or hominids). Humans are terrestrial animals, characterized by their erect posture and bipedal locomotion; high manual dexterity and heavy tool use compared to other animals; open-ended and complex language use compared to other animal communications; larger, more complex brains than other primates; and highly advanced and organized societies.[3][4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human
:namaste:
Quote about "Manu" in the Bhagavad Gita
śrī-bhagavān uvāca
imaḿ vivasvate yogaḿ
proktavān aham avyayam
vivasvān manave prāha
manur ikṣvākave ‘bravīt

Translation of Bhagavad Gita 4.1

The Personality of Godhead, Lord Sri Krishna, said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvan, and Vivasvan instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Ikshavaku.

Commentary by Sri A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada of Gaudiya Sampradaya:

Herein we find the history of the Bhagavad-gita traced from a remote time when it was delivered to the royal order of all planets, beginning from the sun planet. The kings of all planets are especially meant for the protection of the inhabitants, and therefore the royal order should understand the science of Bhagavad-gita in order to be able to rule the citizens and protect them from material bondage to lust. Human life is meant for cultivation of spiritual knowledge, in eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the executive heads of all states and all planets are obliged to impart this lesson to the citizens by education, culture and devotion. In other words, the executive heads of all states are intended to spread the science of Krishna consciousness so that the people may take advantage of this great science and pursue a successful path, utilizing the opportunity of the human form of life.
...

https://www.bhagavad-gita.us/bhagavad-gita-4-1/
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