experience of nibbana- help

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
auto
Posts: 2421
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: experience of nibbana- help

Post by auto »

confusedlayman wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:28 am so intentionally thoughts wont be fabricated... because there is background knowledge that thoughts will produce only suffering and change? is that what vism is trying to say?
Fabrication will be noticed falling away <-- if that is not seen you are not supposed to know about the impermanence, suffering, not self which is about not being able to find satisfaction etc.
It is the non-occurrence of consciousness, disruption in mind stream/life continuum and counterpart sign. Counterpart sign denotes the nearness of jhana.
If falling off the fabrication is noticed(by you) it means the mind goes for the nibbana, you see it occurs as it going for the nibbana and second thing what occurs to you is that the fabrications are ceased. Nibbana per se isn't an object, it is like fire goes out, no more fire.
But if concentration is not strong enough, but you still notice, then the mind will re-enter life continuum which is access concentration and from there can be attained concentration.

I think you need make difference between your regular thoughts and concentration and insight development. Vissudhimagga says that it is rare(very difficult) if one reach from access-concentration to the concentration in same session.
Nobodyisspecial
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat May 08, 2021 1:43 am

Re: experience of nibbana- help

Post by Nobodyisspecial »

Obviously it does not make much sense, until you experience it. Try explaining or imagining altered states of consciousness to someone who never has experienced them. It's a bit ineffable, a bit beyond imagination. When you can relate with the writer because you have been there done that, is a location that you know and are not confused about. That is paraphrasing webu sayadaw. Great author on nibbana. His writings are on access to insight.
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 4960
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: experience of nibbana- help

Post by confusedlayman »

auto wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 3:29 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:28 am so intentionally thoughts wont be fabricated... because there is background knowledge that thoughts will produce only suffering and change? is that what vism is trying to say?
Fabrication will be noticed falling away <-- if that is not seen you are not supposed to know about the impermanence, suffering, not self which is about not being able to find satisfaction etc.
It is the non-occurrence of consciousness, disruption in mind stream/life continuum and counterpart sign. Counterpart sign denotes the nearness of jhana.
If falling off the fabrication is noticed(by you) it means the mind goes for the nibbana, you see it occurs as it going for the nibbana and second thing what occurs to you is that the fabrications are ceased. Nibbana per se isn't an object, it is like fire goes out, no more fire.
But if concentration is not strong enough, but you still notice, then the mind will re-enter life continuum which is access concentration and from there can be attained concentration.

I think you need make difference between your regular thoughts and concentration and insight development. Vissudhimagga says that it is rare(very difficult) if one reach from access-concentration to the concentration in same session.
Non occurance of conciiusneess? I think nibbana is perceived so conciousness is there
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
auto
Posts: 2421
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: experience of nibbana- help

Post by auto »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 6:03 am Non occurance of conciiusneess? I think nibbana is perceived so conciousness is there
You have at least two things to think over,
Does non-occurrence of consciousness mean that the consciousness is absent?
and
in Vissudhimagga it is said,
p793 wrote:18. Herein, (i) What is the attainment of cessation? It is the non-occurrence of
consciousness and its concomitants owing to their progressive cessation.
Progressive cessation i think refer to the 1-8 jhana, and definite is the cessation of perception and feeling(non-occurrence of consciousness where nothing is felt=bliss and signless=non-existence is perceived)

Dukkha knowledges of fearing the arising(accumulating) of formations, arising of formation(2nd link) will arouse consciousness(3rd link) and you suffer(1st noble truth). The non-occurrence of consciousness is when the formations doesn't arise, you anticipate the dangers a'la money making, mates, rich food etc in order to avoid arousing the consciousness.

Yet, what missing is your mind alighting in the non-arising of formations, which is the absorption in the sign(formations being impermanent, suffering and not self =marks of non-existence) where the fruition is.

search non-occurrence on the Visuddhimagga pdf
p 734 wrote: “(4.c.) Knowledge of the state of peace is this: ‘Arising is formations; nonarising
is Nibbána.’ Knowledge of the state of peace is this: ‘Occurrence is
formations; non-occurrence is Nibbána’ … (etc.) … Knowledge of the state of
peace is this: ‘Despair is formations; non-despair is Nibbána.’ [649]
that non-arising is nibbana talk is prior the non-occurrence of consciousness in order to comfort those who are in terror,
pdf wrote:40. Knowledge of the state of peace is this: “Non-arising is safety,” etc.: this, however,
should be understood as said for the purpose of showing the opposite kind of
knowledge to knowledge of danger. Or when it is stated in this way, that there is
safety without terror and free from danger, it is for the purpose of comforting
those who are upset in their hearts by seeing danger through appearance as
terror.
..
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 6279
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: experience of nibbana- help

Post by cappuccino »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 6:03 am I think nibbana is perceived so consciousness is there
:goodpost:
Post Reply