Monastery airconditioning and heating system

[asahi]

Does most of the monastery in the west use airconditioning system in the summer and heating sistem in the winter ? Does it agaisnt the precept and practice to indulge in pleasurable condition ? Would not using it very costly and unaffordable for monks and burdensome for lays to support ?

[SarathW]

I think it is no different for to you take shelter when it rains.
Nowadays lay people like to meditate in airconditioned rooms.
I don't think Buddha would have refused an air-conditioned monastery.

[asahi]

I think it is no different for to you take shelter when it rains.
Nowadays lay people like to meditate in airconditioned rooms.
I don't think Buddha would have refused an air-conditioned monastery.

Well , i stayed at monastery before , the electricity bill are not that high without usage of air conditioner and heater . In our house , as lay people of around 5 persons the usage of electricity with airconditioner could cost around 200-300 per month . Imagine if there are 50 monks how much would that cost ?
There are monastery in Burma with 500 monks such as Pak Auk sayadaw , that would probably cost 10 000 dollar over per month . That is a wastage for renunciate and a burden to lay people to support . Not including other lodging expenses .

[Sam Vara]

The monastery near me doesn't have air conditioning, but it does have a central heating system powered by wood-burning stove. The monks and lay helpers spend a lot of time cutting, transporting, and stacking logs.

In our climate (UK) I think it would be impossible to live there and practice without some form of heating.

[SarathW]

I think it is no different for to you take shelter when it rains.
Nowadays lay people like to meditate in airconditioned rooms.
I don't think Buddha would have refused an air-conditioned monastery.

Well , i stayed at monastery before , the electricity bill are not that high without usage of air conditioner and heater . In our house , as lay people of around 5 persons the usage of electricity with airconditioner could cost around 200-300 per month . Imagine if there are 50 monks how much would that cost ?
There are monastery in Burma with 500 monks such as Pak Auk sayadaw , that would probably cost 10 000 dollar over per month . That is a wastage for renunciate and a burden to lay people to support . Not including other lodging expenses .

I agree with your point.
How about a monk travelling in an air conditioned car? Should he ask the driver to turn it off?

[SarathW]

The monastery near me doesn't have air conditioning, but it does have a central heating system powered by wood-burning stove. The monks and lay helpers spend a lot of time cutting, transporting, and stacking logs.

In our climate (UK) I think it would be impossible to live there and practice without some form of heating.

Thanks. This is perhaps the point I want to make.
Generally, monks adjust to conventional living unless it is prohibited in Vinaya.

[asahi]

I think it is no different for to you take shelter when it rains.
Nowadays lay people like to meditate in airconditioned rooms.
I don't think Buddha would have refused an air-conditioned monastery.

Well , i stayed at monastery before , the electricity bill are not that high without usage of air conditioner and heater . In our house , as lay people of around 5 persons the usage of electricity with airconditioner could cost around 200-300 per month . Imagine if there are 50 monks how much would that cost ?
There are monastery in Burma with 500 monks such as Pak Auk sayadaw , that would probably cost 10 000 dollar over per month . That is a wastage for renunciate and a burden to lay people to support . Not including other lodging expenses .

I agree with your point.
How about a monk travelling in an air conditioned car? Should he ask the driver to turn it off?

It is not a burden for the driver . The monk does not choose to use the air conditioned of the car or purposely enjoying with such intention .

[asahi]

The monastery near me doesn't have air conditioning, but it does have a central heating system powered by wood-burning stove. The monks and lay helpers spend a lot of time cutting, transporting, and stacking logs.

In our climate (UK) I think it would be impossible to live there and practice without some form of heating.

The question is , if that cost a lot of electricty bills as such would amount to 500 or 1000 dollar per month which makes a big difference . It is not about heating system per se .

[Sam Vara]

The monastery near me doesn't have air conditioning, but it does have a central heating system powered by wood-burning stove. The monks and lay helpers spend a lot of time cutting, transporting, and stacking logs.

In our climate (UK) I think it would be impossible to live there and practice without some form of heating.

The question is , if that cost a lot of electricty bills as such would amount to 500 or 1000 dollar per month which makes a big difference . It is not about heating system per se .

Well, there are electricity bills as well, and a lot of other expenses. Luckily the monastery is supported by lots of lay people, some of whom are very wealthy. For example, if there are building projects, the money just "appears". I guess the facilities and comfort improves to the level at which it can be sustained by lay supporters. If the monks wanted or needed air con, they would get it.

[asahi]

Well, there are electricity bills as well, and a lot of other expenses. Luckily the monastery is supported by lots of lay people, some of whom are very wealthy. For example, if there are building projects, the money just "appears". I guess the facilities and comfort improves to the level at which it can be sustained by lay supporters. If the monks wanted or needed air con, they would get it.

That is good if the supporter and condition allow and if they are always that lucky . However building a monastery or project is quite different from that issue . I heard in Burma they are facing difficulty with high electricity bill which they are not affordable by the locals amounting to 10k per month . Not only this is a concern . I have seen with many comforting situation improving that would cause the renunciate tend to regress in their practice . They are not able to progress further when their enjoyment increases . So , the double-edged sword could swing either way .

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Pācittiya 56. Should any bhikkhu who is not ill, seeking to warm himself, kindle a fire or have one kindled — unless there is a suitable reason — it is to be confessed.

Applying the same principle to air-conditioning:

Should any bhikkhu who is not ill, seeking to cool himself, switch on the air-conditioning or have it switched on — unless there is a suitable reason — it is to be confessed.

Ajahn Thanissaro says in this context:

Effort. Lighting a fire at present would include turning on the flame in a heating system in one’s dwelling for the sake of the warmth. Solar or electric heating systems, which do not use flames, would not be included here.

I disagree. There was no electricity in the Buddha’s time. We should therefore apply the Vinaya standards in this case. “If it fits in with what is allowable, then it is allowable. If it fits in with what is not allowable, then it is not allowable.” There is no offence in lighting a fire per se, it can be done to boil water, to scare off animals, or for any other suitable reason. The offence lies in lighting a fire (or switching on air-conditioning) for the sake of physical comfort when there is no risk to one’s health, i.e. no suitable reason.

Usually, one can simply put on warmer clothing, or use a blanket.

If lay supporters, who pay the bills, switch on the heating or air-conditioning of their own accord, without any prompting or hinting from the monks, there is no offence in leaving it on. One can switch it off when the supporters leave. I switch on heating for my lay supporters who may not be accustomed to bearing cold.

In the UK, air-conditioning is not yet needed. I switch on a fan to improve ventilation if it gets close to 30°C in the Summer. In Mahāsi Yeikthā they have ceiling fans in the dining hall, and meditation halls.

[asahi]

Pācittiya 56. Should any bhikkhu who is not ill, seeking to warm himself, kindle a fire or have one kindled — unless there is a suitable reason — it is to be confessed.

Applying the same principle to air-conditioning:

Should any bhikkhu who is not ill, seeking to cool himself, switch on the air-conditioning or have it switched on — unless there is a suitable reason — it is to be confessed.

Ajahn Thanissaro says in this context:

Effort. Lighting a fire at present would include turning on the flame in a heating system in one’s dwelling for the sake of the warmth. Solar or electric heating systems, which do not use flames, would not be included here.

I disagree. There was no electricity in the Buddha’s time. We should therefore apply the Vinaya standards in this case. “If it fits in with what is allowable, then it is allowable. If it fits in with what is not allowable, then it is not allowable.” There is no offence in lighting a fire per se, it can be done to boil water, to scare off animals, or for any other suitable reason. The offence lies in lighting a fire (or switching on air-conditioning) for the sake of physical comfort when there is no risk to one’s health, i.e. no suitable reason.

Usually, one can simply put on warmer clothing, or use a blanket.

If lay supporters, who pay the bills, switch on the heating or air-conditioning of their own accord, without any prompting or hinting from the monks, there is no offence in leaving it on. One can switch it off when the supporters leave. I switch on heating for my lay supporters who may not be accustomed to bearing cold.

In the UK, air-conditioning is not yet needed. I switch on a fan to improve ventilation if it gets close to 30°C in the Summer. In Mahāsi Yeikthā they have ceiling fans in the dining hall, and meditation halls.

Bhante , if i understand correctly , that if the reason is in the winter it is too cold they turn on the heating burner to keep warm and in the summer too warm they turn on the air conditioned to keep cool for himself without any sickness , that is not a suitable reason , and the monk is to be confessed ?

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

When the Dhamma is well-taught and properly practised, the monks should know the limit of how much to accept.

When the Dhamma is not well-taught and not properly practised, the lay supporters should know the limit of how much to give.

Let the monks decide how they wish to practise. The monks administer the five precepts to lay people, but it is not their responsibility to send around the religious police to ensure that the precepts are followed properly.

[asahi]

I think there is a misunderstanding here , no one try to be policing around . When there is a situation arises , the lay supporter are entitle to get a clarification so to know how to handle it . Even monks themselves interpreted vinaya differently . Some Theravada monks do handle money . Lay supporters should know some of the precepts to weigh wisely whether if it is proper to support them . Unless , buddhism wants their lay supporters to remain stupids and easy to be controlled . If really there is a lay person going around interfering then that is another thing , but there isnt in this case . Not that everytime lay person ask some question to clear some doubts means there is a crime and they are acting as police officer investigating them .

[Chris777]

Just checking to make sure, are air ventilators (like this one: https://postimg.cc/QHtDJzzh) and electric fans allowable to use according to Pācittiya 56 and the 4 great standards ?