Abhidhamma and fifth jhāna

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries
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Mangaka
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Abhidhamma and fifth jhāna

Post by Mangaka »

Hello everyone, how are you?
Can someone help me with text of abhidhamma? I found mention about fifth jhāna there but what that jhāna actually is? Aren't there only four jhānas?
Thank you for any help :smile:
Ontheway
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Re: Abhidhamma and fifth jhāna

Post by Ontheway »

Jhanas are four only, but there are five Jhanic consciousnesses associated with characteristics of Jhanas. One is classified using stage attainment (therefore, four), one is classified using consciousness associated with those characteristics (therefore, five). The details can be found in Visuddhimagga.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
SarathW
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Re: Abhidhamma and fifth jhāna

Post by SarathW »

Mangaka wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:30 pm Hello everyone, how are you?
Can someone help me with text of abhidhamma? I found mention about fifth jhāna there but what that jhāna actually is? Aren't there only four jhānas?
Thank you for any help :smile:
As per Sutta:
First Jhana = your find Vitakka, Vicara, Pithy, Sukha, Ekagata in the first jhana.

In Abhidhamma it split in to two.

First Jhana = your find Vitakka, Vicara, Pithy, Sukha, Ekagata in the first jhana.
Second Jhana = your find Vicara, Pithy, Sukha, Ekagata in the second jhana.

So Abhihamma third Jhana = Sutta second Jhana and so on.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Mangaka
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Re: Abhidhamma and fifth jhāna

Post by Mangaka »

Thanks for your answers, I understanded text incorrectly. Thank you very much again.
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Gwi II
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Re: Abhidhamma and fifth jhāna

Post by Gwi II »

Mangaka wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:30 pm Hello everyone, how are you?
Can someone help me with text of abhidhamma? I found mention about fifth jhāna there but what that jhāna actually is? Aren't there only four jhānas?
Thank you for any help :smile:
It is same. I once suggested to the Indonesian
Translator to make a translation like this:

First jhānå, second jhānå, third jhānå, and fourth jhānå.


And for Abhidhammå:
Jhānå I, jhānå II, jhānå III, jhānå IV, jhānå V.

If we talkin about jhānå-2,
Second jhānå 👉 this is from the Suttas
Jhānå II 👉 this is from the Abhidhammå


In the Abhidhammå there are five of which the second
jhānå in the Suttå is divided into two. This is similar to
the case of someone with a diploma (D-3) wanting to go
to bachelor's degree, he needs to study two more years.
The total is five.

D-3 = 3 years
Bachelor = 4 years
D-3 then enter bachelor = 3 + 2 = 5 (years)

There are 2 types of bachelor, but they are the same.
One is 4 years, the other is 5 years.
Gwi: "There are only-two Sakaṽādins:
Theraṽādå&Ṽibhajjaṽādå, the rest are
nonsakaṽādins!"
auto
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Re: Abhidhamma and fifth jhāna

Post by auto »

Gwi II wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:24 am In the Abhidhammå there are five of which the second
jhānå in the Suttå is divided into two. This is similar to
the case of someone with a diploma (D-3) wanting to go
to bachelor's degree, he needs to study two more years.
The total is five.
it is the 4th. 4th has sukha, whereas 5th has sukha replaced with upekkha.

by Dr Mehm.. wrote:The fifth råpàvacara-appanà vãthi arises as in (1), but instead
of one of the two somanassa-sahagataü ¤àõasampayuttaü
mahàkusala cittas, one of the two upekkhàsahagataü
¤àõa-sampayuttaü mahàkusala cittas performs
the upacàra-samàdhi javana function four or three times
and råpàvacara kusala fifth jhàna citta arises just once to
function as appanà-javana.
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frank k
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Re: Abhidhamma and fifth jhāna

Post by frank k »

What LBT Vism. calls 5 fold jhāna, EBT calls it samādhi is three ways

http://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/20 ... a-ebt.html

Sujato, Brahm, and Vism.'s redefinition of vitakka and vicāra in Jhāna really falls apart in AN 8.63, as these articles show:

http://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/20 ... n-863.html
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vanguard
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Re: Abhidhamma and fifth jhāna

Post by vanguard »

It's arupa. The realm of infinite space.
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