🟩 Mind doesn't obsess the mind (Weeks of November 14 and 21, 2021)

Where we gather to focus on a single discourse or thematic collection from the Sutta Piṭaka (new selection every two weeks)
Locked
User avatar
SDC
Posts: 9058
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: 📍 Mind doesn't obsess the mind (Weeks of November 14 and 21, 2021)

Post by SDC »

Pulsar wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:22 pm Pulga wrote
In satisampajañña attention is directed to the background, the doing. But in doing so, the background becomes the foreground of a yet higher level within the hierarchy, i.e. the hierarchy of consciousness. This is the vertical point of view that needs to be developed that Ven. Ñanavira writes of and commends.
Attention directed to the background?? Is this Nanavira's speculation? Ca you pl. quote a sutta that supports this? This is Sutta Study forum.
Nowhere in the suttas have I read instances where background becomes the foreground.
Can you help me locate a sutta? Neither do I find a
  • hierarchy of consciousness.
in Buddha's teachings.
Is there a sutta that refers to this? Are these all fabricated by V. Nanvira, without a meditative background.
Intellectual speculation?
With love :candle:
Hi Pulsar,

As much as you may disagree with Ven. Nanavira, he was very thorough in showing why he interpreted suttas the way that he did, and in many respects it is no different than the many liberties taken by any commentator throughout the history of Buddhism. His ideas are welcome here as long as members make a sufficient effort to connect it to the sutta(s) being studied.

Thank you.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Pulsar
Posts: 2639
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm

Re: 📍 Mind doesn't obsess the mind (Weeks of November 14 and 21, 2021)

Post by Pulsar »

SDC wrote
As much as you may disagree with Ven. Nanavira, he was very thorough in showing why he interpreted suttas the way that he did, and in many respects it is no different than the many liberties taken by any commentator throughout the history of Buddhism. His ideas are welcome here as long as members make a sufficient effort to connect it to the sutta(s) being studied.
I was only asking those who made a sufficient effort to connect his views to suttas, what those suttas were?
Suttas studies have been very helpful to me. Often DooDoot would toss suttas around, and I would open the books and study a sutta he mentioned, and gain much.
I did not quite understand what "hierarchy of consciousness" was, and wanted to know from which sutta V. Nanavira got the idea from, likewise the information on how "background becomes the foreground". Maybe I did not follow this section of the sutta study too well? my bad.
I am particularly interested in the former, "hierarchy of consciousness". Which sutta mentions a similar idea? Can you help me out please?
With love :candle:
User avatar
SDC
Posts: 9058
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: 📍 Mind doesn't obsess the mind (Weeks of November 14 and 21, 2021)

Post by SDC »

Pulsar wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:43 pm SDC wrote
As much as you may disagree with Ven. Nanavira, he was very thorough in showing why he interpreted suttas the way that he did, and in many respects it is no different than the many liberties taken by any commentator throughout the history of Buddhism. His ideas are welcome here as long as members make a sufficient effort to connect it to the sutta(s) being studied.
I was only asking those who made a sufficient effort to connect his views to suttas, what those suttas were?
Suttas studies have been very helpful to me. Often DooDoot would toss suttas around, and I would open the books and study a sutta he mentioned, and gain much.
I did not quite understand what "hierarchy of consciousness" was, and wanted to know from which sutta V. Nanavira got the idea from, likewise the information on how "background becomes the foreground". Maybe I did not follow this section of the sutta study too well? my bad.
I am particularly interested in the former, "hierarchy of consciousness". Which sutta mentions a similar idea? Can you help me out please?
With love :candle:
Hopefully pulga returns to point out what he was referring to - I’ll leave this thread open for a few hours longer and perhaps split this last part off and send to another section for further discussion.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
pulga
Posts: 1501
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: 📍 Mind doesn't obsess the mind (Weeks of November 14 and 21, 2021)

Post by pulga »

The best way to approach Ven. Ñanavira is to make an effort to understand him with an open mind. Once you've made some headway you'll be able to assess whether his views accord with the Suttas.
"Dhammā=Ideas. This is the clue to much of the Buddha's teaching." ~ Ven. Ñanavira, Commonplace Book
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19932
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: 📍 Mind doesn't obsess the mind (Weeks of November 14 and 21, 2021)

Post by mikenz66 »

Pulsar wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:43 pm I did not quite understand what "hierarchy of consciousness" was, and wanted to know from which sutta V. Nanavira got the idea from, likewise the information on how "background becomes the foreground". Maybe I did not follow this section of the sutta study too well? my bad.
I am particularly interested in the former, "hierarchy of consciousness". Which sutta mentions a similar idea? Can you help me out please?
As Pulga says, my impression, after reading posts about Ven Nanavira for a decade or so, and occasionally looking at some of his work, is that one would need to study it in detail to make much sense of if of such terminology.

:heart:
Mike
Locked