Dhammawheels first Ordination camp

[DNS]

On sangham.net it says
Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.:20140527
Practice Info:Monastic Novice

I don't understand the riddles tho.. can just say what's what good samana

Yes, it appears he is a samana, a novice, but never obtained the full ordination. See his post here:
viewtopic.php?p=684736#p684736

Good householder. Senior monk, maybe, yet not one of the Bhikkhus, so always just indirect in ways of encouraging, introducing. Formal giving not possible and proper, but maybe saying "real" isn't that wrong.

A little cryptic, but that plus what it says at his site, it appears that he has been a novice for many years. We might inquire why he never did go for the full ordination, if that is allowed to ask?

We could speculate that maybe he just never got around to it, maybe a preceptor can't be found that would agree to ordain him, or maybe he doesn't see the need and sees it as a worldly title or some other possibly noble intent.

[Coëmgenu]

It's something of a longterm pattern with this user:

viewtopic.php?p=463059#p463059

Which account is this, the fourth?

[DNS]

Another, prior discussion, answer here:
viewtopic.php?p=463073#p463073

Are you a fully ordained Samanera or a Bhikkhu?
Formal my person trains the lives as a so called Samanera, one having received the going forth by a Bhikkhu of the Buddhas Savakas (disciples). Practical, aside of community things, training since longer in Vinaya and in most of the Dhutangas.

Who is your preceptor? My person does not remember his first pereceptors name, having received the going forth, some 7, 8 years ago. Met on the way in an homeless walk, often called Anagarika (actually Samanera): My persons current Ven. preceptor is named Sodhammorakkhito, my persons current Nissaya is perceived in Ven. Indannano, when in touch. For the most time living and dwelling without Nissaya, without dependency.

[SDC]

We could speculate…

But we shouldn’t have to. Why come on here and imply it nonstop but then refuse to answer? If he wants privacy he could easily made the effort to remain anonymous.

I hope he comes back and tells the whole story. I would gladly support him.

[Coëmgenu]

Why would you believe anything he says given his comportment thus far? He apparently can't remember his preceptor, or his preceptor can't remember him? Far too questionable and irregular IMO.

[SDC]

Why would you believe anything he says given his comportment thus far? He apparently can't remember his preceptor, or his preceptor can't remember him? Far too questionable and irregular IMO.

Just trying to be fair in this very bizarre situation.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Just trying to be fair in this very bizarre situation.

Complicated further by the various accounts he has operated under over the years, dating all the way back to Hanzze in 2010-12.

Metta,
Paul.

[User13866]

Why would you believe anything he says given his comportment thus far?

I've no reason to think that he would lie about it. It's not difficult to be ordained as Samanera and he obviously lives in a now renovated cambodian cave. There are many pictures on the website.

[Coëmgenu]

Why would you believe anything he says given his comportment thus far?

I've no reason to think that he would lie about it.

I've reason to believe he'd give a highly ambiguous non-answer to any question about his ordination status in the interest of conning further veneration out of people. Just a few days ago you were "bhanteing" him, no? And you weren't the only one.

[User13866]

Why would you believe anything he says given his comportment thus far?

I've no reason to think that he would lie about it.

I've reason to believe he'd give a highly ambiguous non-answer to any question about his ordination status in the interest of conning further veneration out of people. Just a few days ago you were "bhanteing" him, no? And you weren't the only one.

I find it odd that a samanera lives independently but i don't know what the rules are in regards to this.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

He's welcome to be straight up, honest and transparent with the forum about such matters, whenever he so chooses.

Until such time, speculation is futile... and as SDC said above, we shouldn't have to speculate.



Metta,
Paul.

[Coëmgenu]

I've no reason to think that he would lie about it.

I've reason to believe he'd give a highly ambiguous non-answer to any question about his ordination status in the interest of conning further veneration out of people. Just a few days ago you were "bhanteing" him, no? And you weren't the only one.

I find it odd that a samanera lives independently but i don't know what the rules are in regards to this.

I don't know how it works in the Pāli tradition. Śrāmaṇeras do not observe the vinaya and cannot participate in the monastic uposatha AFAIK. Furthermore, they are not formal members of the Saṃgha, and thus they are not included in "the jewel" of refuge that is the Saṃgha. You don't take refuge in śrāmaṇeras, generally speaking, unless someone is about to correct me with regards to the Theravādin tradition.

I don't think it's entirely regular or normal for someone to just stay a śrāmaṇera indefinitely, but maybe it's a thing in Cambodia.

What's the relevance of this? When Johann says...

Senior monk, maybe, yet not one of the Bhikkhus, so always just indirect in ways of encouraging, introducing. Formal giving not possible and proper, but maybe saying "real" isn't that wrong.

...he should not be identifying himself as a "senior monk." That is not what a śrāmaṇera is. He's supposedly been a śrāmaṇera for a while, so he might be a "senior śrāmaṇera," but that means nothing as far as ordination and being a member of the Saṃgha is concerned. Another user spoke words to this effect. Being a senior monk would mean that you can participate in the ordination of other bhikkhus.

For instance, there are no Mahātheras who are śrāmaṇeras. "Thera" does not apply to śrāmaṇeras, and "senior monk" certainly doesn't either.

Buddhism is not unfamiliar with monk-impersonators. There is a famous figure, Migalaṇḍika Samaṇakuttaka, or "Migalaṇḍika, the monastic lookalike," who features in the Pāli vinaya.

[mikenz66]

I don't know how it works in the Pāli tradition. Śrāmaṇeras do not observe the vinaya and cannot participate in the monastic uposatha AFAIK. Furthermore, they are not formal members of the Saṃgha, and thus they are not included in "the jewel" of refuge that is the Saṃgha. You don't take refuge in śrāmaṇeras, generally speaking, unless someone is about to correct me with regards to the Theravādin tradition.

It's similar in Thai monasteries. It's not the same status as Bhikkhus, and at my local monastery they would eat at a separate table, for example. They still get a lot of respect, but then even I get a lot of respect when I'm on an 8-precept retreat (though I have to sit at a different table from either Bhikkhus or Samaneras, I get to eat at the same time).

The reason some would stay with that status is that the rules are much less complex, so it's more straight-forward to travel and engage in other activities. I believe Bhikkhu Analayo remained a Samanera for quite a while for this reason.


Mike

[Johann]

On sangham.net it says
Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.:20140527
Practice Info:Monastic Novice

I don't understand the riddles tho.. can just say what's what good samana

Yes, it appears he is a samana, a novice, but never obtained the full ordination. See his post here:
viewtopic.php?p=684736#p684736

Good householder. Senior monk, maybe, yet not one of the Bhikkhus, so always just indirect in ways of encouraging, introducing. Formal giving not possible and proper, but maybe saying "real" isn't that wrong.

A little cryptic, but that plus what it says at his site, it appears that he has been a novice for many years. We might inquire why he never did go for the full ordination, if that is allowed to ask?

We could speculate that maybe he just never got around to it, maybe a preceptor can't be found that would agree to ordain him, or maybe he doesn't see the need and sees it as a worldly title or some other possibly noble intent.

Good Brahman David,

there isn't any Sangha perceived who could ordain one who as gone forth, no Sangha of Pabbajito perceiveable. It's not possible that a Pabbajito could ordain under householder.

It's because it would't be right (to much danger) to let others think Samanera as such could (actually as visible does) many produce a lot of demerits, as total wrong introduced and corrupted at large.

No one time, and you wouldn't find another person who does lesser believes such as privacy could be a protection, or certificats, has my person made it accessable for those able to recognize right, but here another time.

Nevertheless, as your kind can only produce more cutting off kamma, Atma will anyway take leave here, as the repeated approached had been simple a matter of gratitude, as at least yours had once given ways benefical to the right ways, even possible not aware. And out of compassion, tried often to leave an opening to try to correct misdeeds.

Yours would know how and where to find, and Atma is currently busy with people having in going forth, the Gems, a new novice to introduce and another just asked his parents to leave home, now seeking the monks to return then.

So here left behind for those able to rejoice in great, and for most just another touch with they will consume like poison because of their wrong views and bad associations.

So good then. May the insurance that the Noble Ones would ever maintain metta be anyway best support for all of you. Metta mooeans giving other all freedom they like, letting wish to control own behind.

[Johann]

All you had to do is answer a question. You made the choice not to do so. So, either you’ve been enjoying the veneration, which you didn’t earn, or are simply incapable of being honest and authentic with yourself. Are you a bhikkhu? Samanera?

Again, yours would be Ashamed to be even quoted that you had been well informed, not only once, but simple prefer to avoid to accept wrong to try to remove any perception that could display your foolishness.

On the contrary, I am more than happy to offer the most sincere apologies and give you the veneration you deserve if you are actually a bhikkhu or a samanera, but you are refusing to stand firm in the choices you have made. If I was ordained I would be proud and not use it as an excuse to shroud myself in mystery. The ambiguity is yours to own.

Never hesitate to do meritful. A fool wishing garanties before giving, never would be able to gain Nissaya with the Sangha, Noble Ones, good.

It's not easy to receive a gift from above. But maybe remember that it could have been that the ingraspable once had been right. Maybe lucky another time anywhere else in this wheel, good householder.

Dogs in villages bark only till they perceive that he would react usual if attack. But western dogs are different raised the those in the old world, learned rules of respect as their protection since having taken birth.

*woof woof*