🟩 On kāyagatāsati and kāye kāyānupassī, Part 3 (Week of 1/23 and 1/30/2022)

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🟩 On kāyagatāsati and kāye kāyānupassī, Part 3 (Week of 1/23 and 1/30/2022)

Post by SDC »

:reading:


What I would like to do for the conclusion of our study of kāyagatāsati (mindfulness of the body) is to examine the key points of MN 119 (Kāyagatāsatisutta). Though, since it converges often with MN 10, 62, and 118, the arrangement below is more of a medley of all four. The goal is to first present where they converge/where they don’t, second, to see if there are any immediate indications of similar descriptions to those of the suttas from the two previous weeks (particularly those alluding to, or corresponding with, the correction of the perversion/inversion), and - where there are perhaps no immediate indications - to deliberately put these extensive descriptions of mindfulness into the light of those suttas to see if we can bring them together. To do this I'd like to use the following excerpts as a lens:
SN 8.4 wrote:“Your mind is on fire
because of a perversion of perception.
Turn away from the feature of things
that’s attractive, provoking lust.

See all conditioned phenomena as other,
as suffering and not-self.
Extinguish the great fire of lust,
don’t burn up again and again.

With mind unified and serene,
meditate on the ugly aspects of the body.
With mindfulness immersed in the body,
be full of disillusionment.
AN 4.49 wrote:Perceiving permanance in the impermanent,
perceiving pleasure in what is suffering,
perceiving a self in what is not-self,
and perceiving attractiveness in what is unattractive,
beings resort to wrong views,
their minds deranged, their perception twisted.
SN 35.95 wrote:“Having seen a form with mindfulness muddled,
Attending to the pleasing sign,
One experiences it with infatuated mind
And remains tightly holding to it.
AN 4.49 wrote:Having heard it, wise people,
having regained their sanity.
They have seen the impermanent as impermanent,
And what is suffering as suffering.

They have seen what is non-self as non-self,
and the unattractive as unattractive,
By the acquisition of right view,
they have overcome all suffering.
(Please see this post for a more extensive presentation of the above suttas)

For reference, these are the previous two weeks:

Part 1: “On kāyagatāsati
Part 2: Sub-session on kāye kāyānupassī viharati (body in the body)

I hope these last few weeks have at least been thought-provoking, and that the suttas I've presented have all found their way into the theme. I think I'll leave this last part open for two weeks to give those interested the chance to evaluate the whole of what has been put together. Enjoy. :smile:

Note: I've deliberately used multiple translators this week. I think it is useful to see the differences, but also that those differences don't set them all too far apart in meaning. Some are more accurate than others, but all seem to get the job done.
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📍 On Kāyagatāsati, Part 3 (Week of 1/23/2022)

Post by SDC »

:reading:


So, let's start with MN 119, set at Jeta's Grove in Anāthapiṇḍika’s park in Sāvatthī. While a group of bhikkhus are discussing how marvelous mindfulness of the body has been described, they are interrupted by none other than the Buddha himself, who, as usual, is curious about the current topic of discussion. After they tell him, he asks them how it is of great fruit and benefit and then goes into the meat of the sutta:
MN 119 wrote:And, bhikkhus, developed in what way, made much of in what way, is mindfulness of the body of much fruit, of much benefit? Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu, gone to the forest, or gone to the root of a tree, or gone to an empty hut sits down, having crossed his legs, with the intention of a straight back, having set up mindfulness in front. Quite mindfully he breathes in, quite mindfully he breathes out. Breathing in long, he understands, ‘I am breathing in long'. Breathing out long, he understands, ‘I am breathing out long'. Breathing in short, he understands, ‘I am breathing in short’. Breathing out short, he understands, ‘I am breathing out short’. He trains thus: ‘I will breathe in experiencing the whole body'. He trains thus: ‘I will breathe out experiencing the whole body'. He trains thus: ‘I will breathe in calming the bodily determinations'. He trains thus: ‘I will breathe out calming the bodily determinations'. For one dwelling in this way, vigilant, ardent, resolute, any memories-&-thoughts connected with home are abandoned. With the abandoning of these internally, the mind stands still, settles down, is unified, is composed. In this way, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops mindfulness of the body.

Furthermore, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu walking, understands: ‘I am walking'; or standing, he understands: ‘I am standing'; or sitting down, he understands: ‘I am sitting down'; or lying down, he understands: ‘I am lying down'. Or in whatever way his body is disposed, he understands this. For one dwelling in this way, vigilant, ardent, resolute, any memories-&- thoughts connected with home are abandoned. With the abandoning of these internally, the mind stands still, settles down, is unified, is composed. In this way, too, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops mindfulness of the body.

Furthermore, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu going forward, going back, is one who acts with awareness; looking forward, looking back, he is one who acts with awareness; bending, stretching, he is one who acts with awareness; taking his bowl and robe, he is one who acts with awareness; eating, drinking, consuming, tasting, he is one who acts with awareness; walking, standing, sitting down, sleeping, waking, speaking, being silent, he is one who acts with awareness. For one dwelling in this way, vigilant, ardent, resolute, any memories-&-thoughts connected with home are abandoned. With the abandoning of these internally, the mind stands still, settles down, is unified, is composed. In this way, too, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops mindfulness of the body.

- Trans. Ven. Akiñcano
So, how does this differ from MN 10? Well, for starters, MN 10 begins with a different question than MN 119.

MN 10:
And how, bhikkhus, does a bhikkhu abide contemplating the body as a body? Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu, gone to the forest, or gone to the root of a tree, or gone to an empty hut sits down, having crossed his legs, with the intention of a straight back, having set up mindfulness in front. Quite mindfully he breathes in...
MN 119:
And, bhikkhus, developed in what way, made much of in what way, is mindfulness of the body of much fruit, of much benefit? Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu, gone to the forest, or gone to the root of a tree, or gone to an empty hut sits down, having crossed his legs, with the intention of a straight back, having set up mindfulness in front. Quite mindfully he breathes in...
Having posed different questions, it is understandable why the descriptions end differently. (Note: the abandonment in MN 119 is “internally” only, leading to the mind being brought together and composed, while the internal/external of MN 10 is a matter of knowing the body from a certain POV. For internal/external descriptions see Thag 2.26 and Thig 5.4)

In MN 119:
"For one dwelling in this way, vigilant, ardent, resolute, any memories-&-thoughts connected with home are abandoned. With the abandoning of these internally, the mind stands still, settles down, is unified, is composed. In this way, too, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops mindfulness of the body".
- Trans. Ven. Bodhi
...while MN 10:
"In this way he abides contemplating a body in a body internally, or he abides contemplating a body in a body externally, or he abides contemplating a body in a body both internally and externally. Or else he abides contemplating in the body its nature of arising, or he abides contemplating in the body its nature of vanishing, or he abides contemplating in the body its nature of arising and vanishing. Or else mindfulness that "there is a body" is simply established in him to the extent necessary for bare knowledge and mindfulness. And he abides independent, not clinging to anything in the world. That is how a bhikkhu abides contemplating a body as a body."
-Trans. Ven. Bodhi
Taking this comparison into consideration, I'm seeing a clear difference between mindfulness of the body proper and the "body in body" contemplation. While the former seems to be the constant between the two, the "body in body" is purely for the gain of knowledge. And I think we will see it lacks the versatility of kāyagatāsati. Not that it is less important, but it is dedicated to one goal: mindfulness that "there is body" to that necessary extent.

Let's see if this comes through any clearer as we go through the unattractive, elements and cemetery contemplations as they appear in MN 10/119 and also MN 62 (in a different way). This portion may seem tedious, but I want the difference noted above to be clear. First, we will do the unattractive and cemetery contemplations in both MN 10 and 119, and then look at elements in MN 10/119/62.

The unattractive:
MN 10 wrote: And again, monks, a monk reflects on precisely this body itself, encased in skin and full of various impurities, from the soles of the feet up and from the crown of the head down, that: ‘There is connected with this body hair of the head, hair of the body, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, sinews, bones, marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, membranes, spleen, lungs, intestines, mesentery, stomach, excrement, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, serum, saliva, mucus, synovic fluid, urine.’

Monks, it is like a double-mouthed provision bag that is full of various kinds of grain such as hill-paddy, paddy, kidney beans, peas, sesamum, rice; and a keen-eyed man, pouring them out, were to reflect: ‘That's hill-paddy, that's paddy, that's kidney beans, that's peas, that's sesamum, that's rice.’

Even so, monks, does a monk reflect on precisely this body itself, encased in skin and full of various impurities, from the soles of the feet up and from the crown of the head down, that: ‘There is connected with this body hair of the head, hair of the body, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, sinews, bones, marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, membranes, spleen, lungs, intestines, mesentery, stomach, excrement, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, serum, saliva, mucus, synovic fluid, urine.’

Thus he fares along contemplating the body in the body internally, or he fares along contemplating the body in the body externally, or he fares along contemplating the body in the body internally and externally.; or he fares along contemplating origination-things in the body, or he fares along contemplating dissolution-things in the body, or he fares along contemplating origination-and-dissolution things in the body; or, thinking, ‘There is the body,’ his mindfulness is established precisely to the extent necessary just for knowledge, just for remembrance, and he fares along independently of and not grasping anything in the world. It is thus too, monks, that a monk fares along contemplating the body in the body.
-Trans. IB Horner
MN 119 wrote:And again, monks, a monk reflects precisely on this body itself, encased in skin... While he is thus diligent, ardent, self-resolute, those memories and aspirations that are worldly are got rid of; by getting rid of them the mind itself is inwardly settled, calmed, focused, concentrated. Thus, monks, does a monk develop mindfulness of body.
-Trans. IB Horner
Note the difference as previously discussed. In MN 119 the intent is focused on leaving the world behind and bring the mind together, while MN 10 is understanding, "There is body", to that necessary extent for knowledge. Using the lens from the OP, let's see what we have here. First, are there any indications that things are being set in the proper order? Is the unattractive being given the priority as the nature of the body to understood? I think so. By putting that aspect first, the worldly is gotten rid of, i.e., the worldly doesn't have the priority. The mindfulness is not muddled as per SN 35.95.

Cemetery:
MN 10 wrote:And again, monks, as a monk might see a body thrown aside in a cemetery, dead for one day or for two days or for three days, swollen, discoloured, decomposing; he focuses on this body itself, thinking: ‘This body, too, is of a similar nature a similar constitution, it has not got past that (state of things).’ Thus he fares along contemplating the body in the body internally, or he fares along contemplating the body in the body externally, or he fares along contemplating the body in the body internally and externally; or he fares along contemplating origination-things in the body, or he fares along contemplating dissolution-things in the body, or he fares along contemplating origination-and-dissolution things in the body; or, thinking, ‘There is the body,’ his mindfulness is established precisely to the extent necessary just for knowledge, just for remembrance, and he fares along independently of and not grasping anything in the world. It is thus too, monks, that a monk fares along contemplating the body in the body.

And again, monks, a monk might see a body thrown aside in a cemetery, and being devoured by crows or ravens or vultures or wild dogs or jackals or by various small creatures; he focuses on this body itself, thinking: ‘This body too is of a similar nature a similar constitution, it has not got past that (state of things).’ Thus he fares along...anything in the world. It is thus too, monks, that a monk fares along contemplating the body in the body.

And again, monks, as a monk might see a body thrown aside in a cemetery a skeleton with (some) flesh and blood, sinew-bound; he focuses on this body itself, thinking: ‘This body too is of a similar nature a similar constitution, it has not got past that (state of things).’ Thus he fares along...anything in the world. It is thus too, monks, that a monk fares along contemplating the body in the body.

And again, monks, as a monk might see a body thrown aside in a cemetery fleshless but blood-bespattered, sinew-bound; he focuses on this body itself, thinking: ‘This body too is of a similar nature a similar constitution, it has not got past that (state of things).’Thus he fares along...anything in the world. It is thus too, monks, that a monk fares along contemplating the body in the body.

And again, monks, as a monk might see a body thrown aside in a cemetery without flesh and blood, sinew-bound; he focuses on this body itself, thinking: ‘This body too is of a similar nature a similar constitution, it has not got past that (state of things).’Thus he fares along...anything in the world. It is thus too, monks, that a monk fares along contemplating the body in the body.

And again, monks, as a monk might see a body thrown aside in a cemetery the bones scattered here and there, no longer held together: here a bone of the hand, there a foot-bone, here a leg-bone, there a rib, here a hip-bone, there a back-bone, here the skull; he focuses on this body itself, thinking: ‘This body too is of a similar nature a similar constitution, it has not got past that (state of things).’ Thus he fares along...anything in the world. It is thus too, monks, that a monk fares along contemplating the body in the body.

And again, monks, a monk might see a body thrown aside in a cemetery: the bones white and something like sea-shells a heap of dried up bones more than a year old, he focuses on this body itself, thinking: ‘This body too is of a similar nature a similar constitution, it has not got past that (state of things).’ Thus he fares along...anything in the world. It is thus too, monks, that a monk fares along contemplating the body in the body.

And again, monks, a monk might see a body thrown aside in a cemetery: the bones gone rotten and reduced to powder; he focuses on this body itself, thinking: ‘This body, too, is of a similar nature a similar constitution, it has not got past that (state of things).’ Thus he fares along contemplating the body in the body internally, or he fares along contemplating the body in the body externally, or he fares along contemplating the body in the body internally and externally; or he fares along contemplating origination-things in the body, or he fares along contemplating dissolution-things in the body, or he fares along contemplating origination-and-dissolution things in the body; or, thinking, ‘There is the body,’ his mindfulness is established precisely to the extent necessary just for knowledge, just for remembrance, and he fares along independently of and not grasping anything in the world. It is thus too, monks, that a monk fares along contemplating the body in the body.
-Trans. IB Horner
MN 119 wrote:And again, monks, it is as if a monk might see, thrown aside in a cemetery a body that had been dead for one day or for two days or for three days, swollen, discoloured, decomposing; so he focuses on this body itself, thinking: ‘This body too is of a similar nature, a similar constitution, it has not got past that (state of things).’ While he is thus diligent, ardent, self-resolute … Thus too, monks, does a monk develop mindfulness of body.

And again, monks, it is as if a monk might see thrown aside in a cemetery a body which was being devoured by crows or ravens or vultures or wild dogs or jackals or by various small creatures; so he focusses on this body itself, thinking: ‘This body too is of a similar nature, a similar constitution, it has not got past that (state of things).’ While he is thus diligent, ardent, self-resolute … Thus too, monks, does a monk develop mindfulness of body.

And again, monks, it is as if a monk might see thrown aside in a cemetery a body which was a skeleton but with (some) flesh and blood, sinew-bound … a skeleton, which was fleshless but blood-bespattered, sinew-bound … a skeleton which was without flesh or blood, sinew-bound; or the bones scattered here and there, no longer held together: here a bone of the hand, there a foot-bone, here a leg-bone, there a rib, here a hip-bone, there a back-bone, here the skull; so he focusses on this body itself, thinking: ‘This body too is of a similar nature, a similar constitution, it has not got past this (state of things).’ While he is thus diligent, ardent, self-resolute … Thus too, monks, does a monk develop mindfulness of body.

And again, monks, it is as if a monk might see thrown aside in a cemetery a body the bones of which were white and something like sea-shells … a heap of dried up bones more than a year old .. the bones gone rotten and reduced to powder; so he focusses on this body itself, thinking: ‘This body too is of a similar nature, a similar constitution, it has not got past this (state of things).’ While he is thus diligent, ardent, self-resolute, those memories and aspirations that are worldly are got rid of; by getting rid of them the mind is inwardly settled, calmed, focused, concentrated. Thus too, monks, does a monk develop mindfulness of body.
- Trans. IB Horner
What I find interesting about the cemetery contemplations is the comparison of the current body to the various stages of the dead body. In MN 10 it is used for the knowledge only and MN 119 for that leaving behind of the worldly upon which the mind is brought together. So again, I am seeing indications of that the cemetery contemplation accords with the lens.

Elements:
MN 10 wrote:"Again, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu reviews this same body, however it is placed, however disposed, by way of elements thus: 'In this body there is the earth element, the water element, the fire element and the air element.' Just as though a skilled butcher or his apprentice has killed a cow and was seated at the crossroads with it cut up into pieces; so too, a bhikkhu reviews this same body...by way of elements thus: 'In this body there are the earth element, the water element, the fire element and the air element.

"In this way he abides contemplating a body in a body internally, or he abides contemplating a body in a body externally, or he abides contemplating a body in a body both internally and externally. Or else he abides contemplating in the body its nature of arising, or he abides contemplating in the body its nature of vanishing, or he abides contemplating in the body its nature of arising and vanishing. Or else mindfulness that "there is a body" is simply established in him to the extent necessary for bare knowledge and mindfulness. And he abides independent, not clinging to anything in the world. That is how a bhikkhu abides contemplating a body as a body."
-Trans Bhikkhu Bodhi
MN 119 wrote:"Again, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu reviews this same body, however it is placed, however disposed, by way of elements thus: 'In this body there is the earth element, the water element, the fire element and the air element.'
...
As he abides thus diligent, ardent, and resolute, his memories and intentions connected with the household life are abandoned; with their abandoning his mind becomes steadied internally, quieted, brought to singleness, and concentrated. That is how a bhikkhu develops mindfulness of the body.
-Trans. Bhikkhu Bodhi
At risk of being redundant here, I just want to stress that the setup in MN 10 and 119 is the same, but it is what is done with it that differs. Again, on the basis of mindfulness of the body, there is a further look into that fundamental nature (here as elements), and that nature is prioritized to the extent that memories and intentions of the worldly life are abandoned.

Let's move on to MN 62 (and away from MN 119 for bit), which is about developing mindfulness of breathing, which we've seen is a type of mindfulness of the body, or rather, it is a type of mindfulness that partakes in knowledge about the body. What is interesting about MN 62 is that when Rāhula asks about how mindfulness of breathing is very fruitful and beneficial, the Buddha starts by describing elements. The insight here is completely different from what we find in MN 10 and 119. Here, the reflection is far more direct: "'This is not mine, I am not this, this is not myself'":
“Rāhula, the interior earth element is said to be anything hard, solid, and appropriated that’s internal, pertaining to an individual. This includes: head hair, body hair, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, sinews, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, diaphragm, spleen, lungs, intestines, mesentery, undigested food, feces, or anything else hard, solid, and appropriated that’s internal, pertaining to an individual. This is called the interior earth element. The interior earth element and the exterior earth element are just the earth element. This should be truly seen with right understanding like this: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ When you truly see with right understanding, you reject the earth element, detaching the mind from the earth element.

And what is the water element? The water element may be interior or exterior. And what is the interior water element? Anything that’s water, watery, and appropriated that’s internal, pertaining to an individual. This includes: bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, grease, saliva, snot, synovial fluid, urine, or anything else that’s water, watery, and appropriated that’s internal, pertaining to an individual. This is called the interior water element. The interior water element and the exterior water element are just the water element. This should be truly seen with right understanding like this: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ When you truly see with right understanding, you reject the water element, detaching the mind from the water element.

And what is the fire element? The fire element may be interior or exterior. And what is the interior fire element? Anything that’s fire, fiery, and appropriated that’s internal, pertaining to an individual. This includes: that which warms, that which ages, that which heats you up when feverish, that which properly digests food and drink, or anything else that’s fire, fiery, and appropriated that’s internal, pertaining to an individual. This is called the interior fire element. The interior fire element and the exterior fire element are just the fire element. This should be truly seen with right understanding like this: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ When you truly see with right understanding, you reject the fire element, detaching the mind from the fire element.

And what is the air element? The air element may be interior or exterior. And what is the interior air element? Anything that’s wind, windy, and appropriated that’s internal, pertaining to an individual. This includes: winds that go up or down, winds in the belly or the bowels, winds that flow through the limbs, in-breaths and out-breaths, or anything else that’s air, airy, and appropriated that’s internal, pertaining to an individual. This is called the interior air element. The interior air element and the exterior air element are just the air element. This should be truly seen with right understanding like this: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ When you truly see with right understanding, you reject the air element, detaching the mind from the air element.

And what is the space element? The space element may be interior or exterior. And what is the interior space element? Anything that’s space, spacious, and appropriated that’s internal, pertaining to an individual. This includes: the ear canals, nostrils, and mouth; and the space for swallowing what is eaten and drunk, the space where it stays, and the space for excreting it from the nether regions. This is called the interior space element. The interior space element and the exterior space element are just the space element. This should be truly seen with right understanding like this: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ When you truly see with right understanding, you reject the space element, detaching the mind from the space element.

Rāhula, meditate like the earth. For when you meditate like the earth, pleasant and unpleasant contacts will not occupy your mind. Suppose they were to toss both clean and unclean things on the earth, like feces, urine, spit, pus, and blood. The earth isn’t horrified, repelled, and disgusted because of this. In the same way, meditate like the earth. For when you meditate like the earth, pleasant and unpleasant contacts will not occupy your mind.

Meditate like water. For when you meditate like water, pleasant and unpleasant contacts will not occupy your mind. Suppose they were to wash both clean and unclean things in the water, like feces, urine, spit, pus, and blood. The water isn’t horrified, repelled, and disgusted because of this. In the same way, meditate like water. For when you meditate like water, pleasant and unpleasant contacts will not occupy your mind.

Meditate like fire. For when you meditate like fire, pleasant and unpleasant contacts will not occupy your mind. Suppose a fire were to burn both clean and unclean things, like feces, urine, spit, pus, and blood. The fire isn’t horrified, repelled, and disgusted because of this. In the same way, meditate like fire. For when you meditate like fire, pleasant and unpleasant contacts will not occupy your mind.

Meditate like wind. For when you meditate like wind, pleasant and unpleasant contacts will not occupy your mind. Suppose the wind were to blow on both clean and unclean things, like feces, urine, spit, pus, and blood. The wind isn’t horrified, repelled, and disgusted because of this. In the same way, meditate like the wind. For when you meditate like wind, pleasant and unpleasant contacts will not occupy your mind.

Meditate like space. For when you meditate like space, pleasant and unpleasant contacts will not occupy your mind. Just as space is not established anywhere, in the same way, meditate like space. For when you meditate like space, pleasant and unpleasant contacts will not occupy your mind.

Meditate on love. For when you meditate on love any ill will will be given up.

Meditate on compassion. For when you meditate on compassion any cruelty will be given up.

Meditate on rejoicing. For when you meditate on rejoicing any discontent will be given up.

Meditate on equanimity. For when you meditate on equanimity any repulsion will be given up.

Meditate on ugliness. For when you meditate on ugliness any lust will be given up.

Meditate on impermanence. For when you meditate on impermanence any conceit ‘I am’ will be given up.

Develop mindfulness of breathing. When mindfulness of breathing is developed and cultivated it’s very fruitful and beneficial. And how is mindfulness of breathing developed and cultivated to be very fruitful and beneficial?
- Trans. Ven. Sujato
Before we look at MN 118, I just want to point out that all of the above is setup prior to ānāpānassati. As I read it, MN 62 is instructing how meditating on a certain aspect will prevent something else from taking priority. For the elements, mediating "like" them will prevent "pleasant and unpleasant contacts" from occupying the mind. I see this as keeping the perception from twisting and mindfulness from being muddled.
MN 118 wrote:“Here a bhikkhu, gone to the forest or to the root of a tree or to an empty hut, sits down; having folded his legs crosswise, set his body erect, and established mindfulness in front of him, ever mindful he breathes in, mindful he breathes out.

“Breathing in long, he understands: ‘I breathe in long’; or breathing out long, he understands: ‘I breathe out long.’ Breathing in short, he understands: ‘I breathe in short’; or breathing out short, he understands: ‘I breathe out short.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing the whole body of breath’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing the whole body of breath.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in tranquillising the bodily formation’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out tranquillising the bodily formation.’

“He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing rapture’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing rapture.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing pleasure’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing pleasure.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing the mental formation’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing the mental formation. ’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in tranquillising the mental formation’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out tranquillising the mental formation.’

“He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing the mind’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing the mind.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in gladdening the mind’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out gladdening the mind.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in concentrating the mind’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out concentrating the mind.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in liberating the mind’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out liberating the mind.’

“He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in contemplating impermanence’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out contemplating impermanence. ’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in contemplating fading away’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out contemplating fading away.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in contemplating cessation’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out contemplating cessation.’ He trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in contemplating relinquishment’; he trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out contemplating relinquishment. ’

“Bhikkhus, that is how mindfulness of breathing is developed and cultivated, so that it is of great fruit and great benefit.

“And how, bhikkhus, does mindfulness of breathing, developed and cultivated, fulfil the four foundations of mindfulness?

“Bhikkhus, on whatever occasion a bhikkhu, breathing in long, understands: ‘I breathe in long,’ or breathing out long, understands: ‘I breathe out long’; breathing in short, understands: ‘I breathe in short,’ or breathing out short, understands: ‘I breathe out short’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in experiencing the whole body of breath’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out experiencing the whole body of breath’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe in tranquillising the bodily formation’; trains thus: ‘I shall breathe out tranquillising the bodily formation’—on that occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating the body as a body, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world. I say that this is a certain body among the bodies, namely, in-breathing and out-breathing. That is why on that occasion a bhikkhu abides contemplating the body as a body, ardent, fully aware, and mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world.
-Trans. Ven. Bodhi
Hopefully this has brought us just about full-circle. We have returned to the contemplation of "body as a body". Now is, "I say that this is a certain body among the bodies, namely, in-breathing and out-breathing", another way of saying that, "mindfulness that "there is a body" is simply established in him to the extent necessary for bare knowledge and mindfulness'? Does MN 10 and MN 118 accord?
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📍 On Kāyagatāsati, Part 3 (Week of 1/23/2022)

Post by SDC »

:reading:


I'd like to finish this presentation by bringing MN 119 to a close. As we have already seen, the question posed is, "And, bhikkhus, developed in what way, made much of in what way, is mindfulness of the body of much fruit, of much benefit?" So, we've gone through breathing, postures, full awareness, unattractive, elements and cemetery with respect to the body and for each in MN 119 we find, ""For one dwelling in this way, vigilant, ardent, resolute, any memories-&-thoughts connected with home are abandoned. With the abandoning of these internally, the mind stands still, settles down, is unified, is composed. In this way, too, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops mindfulness of the body". What's next?

This is what immediately follows the cemetery contemplations:
MN 119 wrote: Furthermore, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu, quite secluded from sense-desires... dwells having entered upon the first jhana. He makes this very body flow with joy-&-pleasure born of seclusion, he makes it flow all around, he fills it up, he fully pervades it, so that for him there isn’t anything in the entire body which hasn’t been pervaded with joy-&-pleasure born of seclusion. Suppose a skilled barber or a barber's apprentice, having scattered soap- powder on a metal dish, having sprinkled gradually with water, would knead it, for him this lump of soap is given over to the moisture, is overcome with the moisture, pervaded inside-&-out with moisture, but not dripping. In just this way, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu makes this very body flow with joy-&-pleasure born of seclusion, he makes it flow all around, he fills it up, he fully pervades it, so that for him there isn’t anything in the entire body which hasn’t been pervaded with joy-&-pleasure born of seclusion. For one dwelling in this way, vigilant... In this way, too, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops mindfulness of the body.

Furthermore, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu, with the stilling of thinking-&-pondering... dwells having entered upon the second jhana. He makes this very body flow with joy-&-pleasure born of composure, he makes it flow all around, he fills it up, he fully pervades it, so that for him there isn’t anything in the entire body which hasn’t been pervaded with joy-&-pleasure born of composure. Imagine a deep lake whose waters well up. There isn’t an inflow for it from the eastern direction, there isn’t an inflow from the western direction, there isn’t an inflow from the northern direction, there isn’t an inflow from the southern direction, and the sky would not provide a seasonable shower from time to time. Then cool torrents of water, having sprung up from the lake, would make the lake flow with cool water, would make it flow all around, would fill it up, would fully pervade it, so that there wouldn't be anything in the entire lake that wasn't pervaded with cool water. In just this way, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu makes this very body flow with joy-&-pleasure born of composure, he makes it flow all around, he fills it up, he fully pervades it, so that for him there isn’t anything in the entire body which hasn’t been pervaded with joy-&-pleasure born of composure. For one dwelling in this way, vigilant... In this way, too, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops mindfulness of the body.

Furthermore, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu, with the fading of joy... dwells having entered upon the third jhana. He makes this very body flow with pleasure free from joy, he makes it flow all around, he fills it up, he fully pervades it, so that for him there isn’t anything in the entire body which hasn’t been pervaded with pleasure free from joy. Imagine, bhikkhus, a pond of waterlillies, or a pond of lotuses, or a pond of white lotuses, and some of the waterlillies or lotuses or white lotuses were born in the water, grew up in the water, rose up in the water, were nourished submerged in the water. And insofar as the roots are flowing, are flowing all around, are filled up, are fully pervaded with cool water, there isn’t anything in the entire waterlillies or lotuses or white lotuses which wasn’t pervaded with cool water. In just this way, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu makes this very body flow with pleasure free from joy, he makes it flow all around, he fills it up, he fully pervades it, so that for him there isn’t anything in the entire body which hasn’t been pervaded with pleasure free from joy. For one dwelling in this way, vigilant... In this way, too, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops mindfulness of the body.

Furthermore, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu, with the abandoning of pleasure... dwells having entered upon the fourth jhana. He is sitting down having pervaded this very body with a clarified, purified mind; for him there isn’t anything in the entire body which hasn’t been pervaded with a clarified, purified mind. Imagine, bhikkhus, a man who has dressed himself up to the head in a white cloth were sitting down. In just this way, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu is sitting down having pervaded this very body with a clarified, purified mind; for him there isn’t anything in the entire body which hasn’t been pervaded with a clarified, purified mind. For one dwelling in this way, vigilant, ardent, resolute, any memories-&-thoughts connected with home are abandoned. With the abandoning of these internally, the mind stands still, settles down, is unified, is composed. In this way, too, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops mindfulness of the body.
- Trans. Ven. Akiñcano
So, what has been done with the proper setup of mindfulness of the body here is to develop jhana. Let’s not forget, the goal up to this point in MN 119 is to bring the mind together, settle it and compose it.

Further, the setup is the basis for wholesome phenomena to be conducive to wisdom; there is the opportunity for discernment; there is the possibility of an “opening:
MN 119 wrote:Bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is developed, made much of, whatever wholesome phenomena included in this are conducive to wisdom. Imagine, bhikkhus, for whichever great ocean is pervaded by the mind, whatever small rivers included in this go into the great ocean. In just this way, bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is developed, made much of, whatever wholesome phenomena included in this are conducive to wisdom.

Bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is not developed, not made much of, Mara gains access to him, Mara gains a foundation in him. Suppose, bhikkhus, a man were to throw a heavy stone into a damp pile of clay. What do you think, bhikkhus? Would that heavy stone gain access into that damp pile of clay?” “Yes, Bhante.” “In just this way, bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is not developed, not made much of, Mara gains access to him, Mara gains a foundation in him. Imagine, bhikkhus, some dry sapless wood. Then a man would come to get some kindling —“I will produce a fire, I will manifest fire.” What do you think, bhikkhus? Having taken a bit of dry sapless wood, rubbing it, would this man produce a fire, manifest fire?” “Yes, Bhante.” “In just this way, bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is not developed, not made much of, Mara gains access to him, Mara gains a foundation in him. Imagine, bhikkhus, a hollow empty water-jug placed in a basin. Then a man would come to take a load of water. What do you think, bhikkhus, would this man manage to get rid of the water?” “Yes, Bhante.” “In just this way, bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is not developed, not made much of, Mara gains access to him, Mara gains a foundation in him.”

Bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is developed, made much of, Mara does not gain access to him, Mara does not gain a foundation in him. Suppose, bhikkhus, a man were to throw a light ball of string at a door-panel made entirely of hard wood. What do you think, bhikkhus? Would that light ball of string gain access into that door-panel made entirely of hard wood?” “No, Bhante.” “In just this way, bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is developed, made much of, Mara does not gain access to him, Mara does not gain a foundation in him. Imagine, bhikkhus, some damp sappy wood. Then a man would come to get some kindling—“I will produce a fire, I will manifest fire.” What do you think, bhikkhus? Having taken a bit of damp sappy wood, rubbing it, would this man produce a fire, manifest fire?” “No, Bhante.” “In just this way, bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is developed, made much of, Mara does not gain access to him, Mara does not gain a foundation in him. Imagine, bhikkhus, a water-jug placed in a basin, full to the brim with water, which crows could drink. Then a man would come to take a load of water. What do you think, bhikkhus, would this man manage to get rid of the water?” “No, Bhante.” “In just this way, bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is developed, made much of, Mara does not gain access to him, Mara does not gain a foundation in him.

Bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is developed, made much of, wherever he directs the mind to the realisation by discernment of things that can be realised by discernment—right there, if there is an opening, he attains the ability to witness it for himself. Imagine, bhikkhus, a water-jug placed in a basin, full to the brim with water, which crows could drink. Whenever a strong man would draw water, would water come?” “Yes, Bhante”. “In just this way, bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is developed, made much of, wherever he directs the mind to the realisation by discernment of things that can be realised by discernment—right there, if there is an opening, he attains the ability to witness it for himself. Imagine, bhikkhus, that a square pond on a level piece of land, trapped by a dam, full to the brim with water, which crows could drink. Whenever a strong man would release the dam, would the water come?” “Yes, Bhante”. “In just this way, bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is developed, made much of, wherever he directs the mind to the realisation by discernment of things that can be realised by discernment—right there, if there is an opening, he attains the ability to witness it for himself. Imagine, bhikkhus, a chariot on even ground at a crossroads, harnessed to thoroughbreds, standing with its goad fallen down. A skilled charioteer, horse- trainer, having mounted, having taken the reins with his left hand, having taken the goad with his right hand, would make it move, make it go wherever he wished. In just this way, bhikkhus, for whoever mindfulness of the body is developed, made much of, wherever he directs the mind to the realisation by discernment of things that can be realised by discernment— right there, if there is an opening, he attains the ability to witness it for himself.”

“Bhikkhus, with mindfulness of the body frequently developed, made much of, made a habit of, made a basis of, practised, made familiar, thoroughly undertaken, ten benefits are to be expected.

(i) There is enduring non-delight-&-delight but he does not endure this non-delight, he dwells having overcome arisen non-delight.

(ii) There is enduring fear-&-dread, but he does not endure this fear-&-dread, he dwells having overcome arisen fear-&-dread.

(iii) There is patience towards cold, heat, hunger, thirst, contact-with-flies-mosquitoes- wind-heat-&-creepie-crawlies; there is endurance towards bad speech, unwelcome ways of speaking, arisen feelings in the body that are painful, sharp, rough, severe, disagreeable, displeasing, taking away life.

(iv) He is one who obtains at will, without trouble, without difficulty, the four jhanas, of the higher mind, pleasant dwellings here-&- now.

(v) He experiences the various kinds of powers. Having been one, he is many; having been many he is one... he exerts control with his body as far as the Brahma world.

(vi) With the divine ear-element, which is clarified and surmounts the human, he hears sounds both divine and human, whether far or near...

(vii) He understands the minds of other beings, of other individuals, having encompassed them by mind. He understands a mind with passion as: ‘A mind with passion’; or he understands a mind free from passion... a mind with ill-will... a mind free from ill-will... a mind with delusion... a mind free from delusion... a contracted mind... a scattered mind... an enlarged mind... an unenlarged mind... an mind with something beyond... a mind without anything beyond... a composed mind... an uncomposed mind... a liberated mind... he understands an unliberated mind as: ‘An unliberated mind’.

(viii) He recollects various former lives, that is... one birth, two births... with such a reason, with such an explanation, he recollects various kinds of former lives.

(ix) With the divine eye-element, which is clarified and surmounts the human, he sees beings passing away, reappearing, inferior, excellent, beautiful, ugly, good destinations, bad destinations, he understands that beings go according to their actions.

(x) Having realised for himself by recognising here-&-now liberation of mind, liberation of understanding, he dwells having entered upon the destruction of the outflows which is without outflows.

Bhikkhus, with mindfulness of the body frequently developed, made much of, made a habit of, made a basis of, practised, made familiar, thoroughly undertaken, these ten benefits are to be expected.”
- Trans. Ven. Akiñcano
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📍 On Kāyagatāsati, Part 3 (Week of 1/23/2022)

Post by SDC »

📚

Thoughts?

  • Do the suttas from the two previous weeks accord with this week?
  • Is kāyagatāsati the development of knowledge about the body? Is the perception untwisted and mindfulness not muddled when the truth about the body is recollected? And not even necessarily when they are immediately apparent - these truths about the body in terms of unattractive, elements and cemetery contemplations are not things that appear directly. Remember Snp 1.11 from last week? "Governed by ignorance, the fool thinks it's lovely." These truths are not immediately evident. They need to be recollected. They need to be remembered.

  • Lastly, I'd like to return to the lens we took up using SN 8.4 and AN 4.49, which I think is the most important description for understanding mindfulness:
    SN 8.4 wrote:“Your mind is on fire
    because of a perversion of perception.
    Turn away from the feature of things
    that’s attractive, provoking lust.

    See all conditioned phenomena as other,
    as suffering and not-self.
    Extinguish the great fire of lust,
    don’t burn up again and again.

    With mind unified and serene,
    meditate on the ugly aspects of the body.
    With mindfulness immersed in the body,
    be full of disillusionment.

    Meditate on the signless,
    give up the underlying tendency to conceit;
    and when you comprehend conceit,
    you will live at peace.”
    AN 4.49 wrote:Perceiving permanence in the impermanent,
    perceiving pleasure in what is suffering,
    perceiving a self in what is not-self,
    and perceiving attractiveness in what is unattractive,
    being resort to wrong views.

    Such beings are bound by the yoke of Mara,
    and do not reach security from bondage.
    Being continue in samsara,
    going to birth and death.

    But when the Buddha arise in the world,
    sending forth a brilliant light,
    they reveal the Dhamma that leads
    to the stilling of suffering.

    Having heard it, wise people,
    having regained their sanity.
    They have seen the impermanent as impermanent,
    And what is suffering as suffering.

    They have seen what is non-self as non-self,
    and the unattractive as unattractive,
    By the acquisition of right view,
    they have overcome all suffering.
    By remembering the nature of the body and setting it rightly, it is less and less likely that the wrong things will be remembered as being most significant. Is this the basis of any mindful reflection?
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Re: 📍 On Kāyagatāsati, Part 3 (Week of 1/23/2022)

Post by mikenz66 »

Some great stuff here, SDC, but I need to do some careful reflection to be able add anything.

However, as I mentioned last week, the more I see the awkward Buddhist-hybrid-English expression "contemplating the body as a body", the less it makes sense. I think the rest of your exposition sheds a lot of light, without relying on this attempt by translators to reproduce a Pali idiom in English.

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Re: 📍 On Kāyagatāsati, Part 3 (Week of 1/23/2022)

Post by SDC »

mikenz66 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:38 pm Some great stuff here, SDC, but I need to do some careful reflection to be able add anything.

However, as I mentioned last week, the more I see the awkward Buddhist-hybrid-English expression "contemplating the body as a body", the less it makes sense. I think the rest of your exposition sheds a lot of light, without relying on this attempt by translators to reproduce a Pali idiom in English.

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Mike
Thanks, Mike!

I understand what you are saying about how kāye kāyānupassī is translated. Based on these suttas, I think what’s important is that the understanding stays within the nature of the body as opposed to directly on the body. With the latter, it is easy to digress out into the world, i.e., what the body is in contact with, and that is more likely to induce sensuality and pervert the perception, or rather, that would keep the perception perverted, and prevent the proper development of mindfulness.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: 📍 On Kāyagatāsati, Part 3 (Week of 1/23/2022)

Post by mikenz66 »

SDC wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:34 pm I understand what you are saying about how kāye kāyānupassī is translated. Based on these suttas, I think what’s important is that the understanding stays within the nature of the body as opposed to directly on the body. With the latter, it is easy to digress out into the world, i.e., what the body is in contact with, and that is more likely to induce sensuality and pervert the perception, or rather, that would keep the perception perverted, and prevent the proper development of mindfulness.
Could you explain what you mean by "within the nature of the body" as opposed "to directly on the body" means? I really don't know what those mean. To me, the various instructions are about being aware of various aspects of the body (e..g in the case of the elements, being aware of hardness, etc). Is that within the nature, or directly on the body?

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Re: 📍 On Kāyagatāsati, Part 3 (Week of 1/23/2022)

Post by SDC »

mikenz66 wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:15 pm
SDC wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:34 pm I understand what you are saying about how kāye kāyānupassī is translated. Based on these suttas, I think what’s important is that the understanding stays within the nature of the body as opposed to directly on the body. With the latter, it is easy to digress out into the world, i.e., what the body is in contact with, and that is more likely to induce sensuality and pervert the perception, or rather, that would keep the perception perverted, and prevent the proper development of mindfulness.
Could you explain what you mean by "within the nature of the body" as opposed "to directly on the body" means? I really don't know what those mean.
Sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touches and thoughts are all on account of this living body with a certain nature. Remembering that fundamental nature of the body - whether through unattractive, elements, cemetery contemplations - keeps everything contained in that “foundation”, sets it up rightly and generates dispassion. I think that is why that “extent necessary” is mentioned in MN 10: to whatever extent is needed for that knowledge to grow potent enough that it cannot go back to wrong view.
mikenz66 wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:15 pm To me, the various instructions are about being aware of various aspects of the body (e..g in the case of the elements, being aware of hardness, etc). Is that within the nature, or directly on the body?
I think that is the difference between “being aware” and “remembering”. Descriptions of sati seem more about memory and recollection than awareness of something immediate. The immediacy is certainly the prompt, but the mindfulness is the knowledge. That is what I found so fascinating about Snp 1.11, which is pretty direct about what the body is and how easily it is ignored, that what is found directly won’t always induce that more fundamental nature.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: 📍 On Kāyagatāsati, Part 3 (Week of 1/23/2022)

Post by mikenz66 »

SDC wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:42 pm I think that is the difference between “being aware” and “remembering”. Descriptions of sati seem more about memory and recollection than awareness of something immediate. The immediacy is certainly the prompt, but the mindfulness is the knowledge. That is what I found so fascinating about Snp 1.11, which is pretty direct about what the body is and how easily it is ignored, that what is found directly won’t always induce that more fundamental nature.
I've never been particularly convinced by arguments that sati in this context must mean memory. But I do agree with your point that these suttas on mindfulness are not just about direct experience, in the present. They also involve thinking and visualisation. Perhaps that's what you mean by memory? And discerning impermanence, for example, involves not only being aware of how things are now, but also remembering how they were a short time (or a long time) ago.

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Re: 📍 On Kāyagatāsati and kāye kāyānupassī, Part 3 (Week of 1/23 and 1/30/2022)

Post by sunnat »

a problem with sati as remembering is that remembering is a sankhara dependent on conditions and not as it implies an act of a controlling mind. Memory is anicca.

This is why guided practice is so important. Buddha seems very repetitive but consider why. It’s not just for clarity. Again and again he directs the mind of the audience to the Dhamma. Again and again planting seeds. Again and again making opportunities to create wholesome kamma which results in wholesome sankharas (now called acts of remembering) arising more and more frequently (giving an illusion that one has chosen to remember more often). Recite, chant, listen and don’t think that just because one has a good memory it will be easy to purify the mind. Again and again, practice until it becomes continuous.
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Re: 📍 On Kāyagatāsati, Part 3 (Week of 1/23/2022)

Post by SDC »

mikenz66 wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:27 am
SDC wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:42 pm I think that is the difference between “being aware” and “remembering”. Descriptions of sati seem more about memory and recollection than awareness of something immediate. The immediacy is certainly the prompt, but the mindfulness is the knowledge. That is what I found so fascinating about Snp 1.11, which is pretty direct about what the body is and how easily it is ignored, that what is found directly won’t always induce that more fundamental nature.
I've never been particularly convinced by arguments that sati in this context must mean memory. But I do agree with your point that these suttas on mindfulness are not just about direct experience, in the present. They also involve thinking and visualisation. Perhaps that's what you mean by memory? And discerning impermanence, for example, involves not only being aware of how things are now, but also remembering how they were a short time (or a long time) ago.
Absolutely. Or what they are certain to be in the future. Or what things are under the beautiful appearance, which is undeniably a relevant aspect. Beauty is often the first thing we are presented with in certain experiences, and that beauty object, or simply the posture of the body, are prompts to remember/recollect that broader nature of the body. If a person is not developed in this way at all, the sign of beauty nor the posture of the body will serve as a reminder of that broader nature. This example can be amplified through the verses of Rājadatta (Thag 5.1), where he becomes aroused by a dead body. He is so shocked that he quickly leaves a dedicates himself to practice. Now imagine how hard it is for someone who has no reason to avoid beauty and lust. The prompts will not be strong at all because there is nothing specific, or at least nothing strong enough, for that person to recollect/remember in a sensual situation.

So yes, imagery is definitely along the line of what I’m saying and I do see it in the descriptions as well. The availability of mindful reflection needs to be developed by remembering the nature as often as possible. Not obsessively just for the sake of doing so, but so that perception in general is setup with as many prompts as possible to gradually remove the perversion/inversion. After a while, that broader nature of the body comes along with experience and mindfulness helps that knowledge keep growing. Taking the example of the man walking through the crowd with the pot of oil and the man with the drawn sword is behind him ready to cut off his head if he spills a drop - and by the way the most beautiful woman in the world is on the stage! - we get a better idea of how close mindfulness of the body should be if it is to be useful and made much of (as that sutta says).
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: 📍 On Kāyagatāsati and kāye kāyānupassī, Part 3 (Week of 1/23 and 1/30/2022)

Post by SDC »

sunnat wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:25 pm a problem with sati as remembering is that remembering is a sankhara dependent on conditions and not as it implies an act of a controlling mind. Memory is anicca.
I agree, and that seems to be why so many of these suttas are describing it as development. If a person does not work to remember these things, work to develop virtue, work to avoid giving to sensuality, and work to practice restraint, then there are no conditions for development. Without that work there won’t be that many reminders to remember the nature of the body.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: 📍 On Kāyagatāsati and kāye kāyānupassī, Part 3 (Week of 1/23 and 1/30/2022)

Post by mjaviem »

mikenz66 wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:27 am I've never been particularly convinced by arguments that sati in this context must mean memory...
sunnat wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:25 pm a problem with sati as remembering is that remembering is a sankhara dependent on conditions and not as it implies an act of a controlling mind. Memory is anicca.
...
Sati means not forgetting, as in keeping always in mind, not getting distracted. You remember what you are up to. And it is not awareness of things unimportant. It's awareness of the situation in the buddhist teachings context. Mindfulness of the body is not to be aware of every movement and sensation of your body either.
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
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