Buddha never taught an unchanging standalone mind.auto wrote: ↑Sat May 14, 2022 4:58 pmWhat about pure mind? there is an actual layer(clinging aggregates). Deconstructing awareness seem off, since one need tag the true mind instead of the clinging aggregates. Clinging aggregates remain intact.xabir wrote: ↑Sat May 14, 2022 2:23 am Also in anatta, a 'Knowing' that could stand alone besides the seen, heard, smelled is deconstructed and seen through.
http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/searc ... vani%20Geo
There is only sound
Geovani Geo wrote:
We hear a sound. The immediate deeply inbuilt conditioning says, "hearing ". But there is a fallacy there. There is only sound. Ultimately, no hearer and no hearing. The same with all other senses. A centralized, or expanded, or zero-dimensional inherent perceiver or aware-er is an illusion.
Thusness/John Tan:
Very good.
Means both stanza is clear.
In hearing, no hearer.
In hearing, only sound. No hearing.
Labels: Anatta, Geovani Geo 0 comments | |clinging aggregates,surangama wrote: Your bodies and minds are just appearances
within the wonderful, bright and pure Profound Mind.
..
(Minds) dimness creates (dull) emptiness and both, in
the darkness, unite with it to become form. The mingling of
form with false thinking causes the latter to take the shape of
a body, stirred by accumulated causes within and drawn to
externals without. Such inner disturbance is mistaken for the
nature of mind, hence the false view of a mind dwelling in the
physical body and the failure to realize that this body as well
as external mountains, rivers, space and the great earth are
but phenomena within the wondrous bright True Mind.(based on surangama sutra quote)how do you get rid of the false view about the mind dwelling in the body? it doesn't suggest that the perceiver is an illusion, but because of dull emptiness there is the misperception of a perceiver in the body.https://suttacentral.net/mn44/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote:“Visākha, the Buddha said that these five grasping aggregates are identity.
“Pañca kho ime, āvuso visākha, upādānakkhandhā sakkāyo vutto bhagavatā,
That is: form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness.
seyyathidaṁ—rūpupādānakkhandho, vedanupādānakkhandho, saññupādānakkhandho,
I am surprised you quoted Shurangama Sutra since this is a Theravadin forum, but since you quoted it, I will like to refer you to two articles:
Master Hui Lu's commentary on Shurangama Sutra: http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2012/ ... ma_18.html
Zen Master Dogen's comments about Shurangama Sutra halfway down the article as commented by Zen teacher Shohaku Okumura: http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/ ... sutra.html
In both cases, they refuted eternalist interpretations of that sutra.
It is very easy to fall into eternalism on cursory reading of that sutra.
Realizing true mind is just the beginning realization, the I AM of http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/ ... ience.html
The realization of anatman is that even the true mind is empty.
I wrote recently elsewhere:
http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/ ... nd-vs.html
It must result in the realization of Bodhidharma and his student -- the realization that there never was a Mind!
This realization:
http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/ ... harma.html
"If one accepts that there is no mind, it must follow that there is no seeing, hearing, feeling, and knowing. Say: how can there be any seeing, hearing, feeling, and knowing [without mind]?"
"Though I have no mind, I can ver well [1269b] see and hear and feel and know."
...
"But how could one [even] gain the ability to know that it is no-mind [that sees, hears, feels, and knows]?"
"Just try to find out in every detail: What appearance does mind have? And if it can be apprehended: is [what is apprehended] mind or not? Is [mind] inside or outside, or somewhere in between? As long as one looks for mind in these three locations, one's search will end in failure. Indeed, searching it anywhere will end in failure. That's exactly why it is known as no-mind."
...
"Just be totally aware in all affairs! No-mind is nothing other than practice; there is no other practice. Thus you'll realize that no-mind is everything, and that extinction (nirvana) is nothing other than no-mind."
12
At this, the disciple all at once greatly awakened and realized for the first time that there is no thing apart from mind, and no mind apart from things. All of his actions became utterly free. Having broken through the net of all doubt, he was freed of all obstruction.
...
14
The Reverend then told him: "Among all forms of wisdom, I regard the wisdom of no-mind as the highest. Thus the Vimalakirti sutra says: "Neither having a conscious mind nor mental impressions and processes, he sees through the ignorant and submits those of different creed." Again, the Sutra of the Great Dharma Drum states, "If you know that there is no mind that can be attained, no objects whatsoever are grasped; neither are sincs and meritorious activities, nor life-and-death and nirvana. Indeed, nothing at all can be grasped - not-grasping included!"
15
Then [the disciple again] produces a verse:
In the past, when I was deluded, I held that there is a mind;
But now that I am awakened, there's no mind, that's all!
Though there is no mind, it perceives and is active;
Its perception and activity ever calm, it is pure suchness.
16
And he added:
No mind, no perception, and no activity at all -
No perception, no activity: that's wuwei.
This is the genuine Dharma-realm of the Tathagata,
Different from that of bodhisattvas and pratyeka buddhas.
...
Elsewhere, Bodhidharma said: https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com ... bodhi.html
Seeing with insight, form is not simply form, because form depends on mind. And, mind is not simply mind, because mind depends on form. Mind and form create and negate each other. … Mind and the world are opposites, appearances arise where they meet. When your mind does not stir inside, the world does not arise outside. When the world and the mind are both transparent, this is the true insight.” (from the Wakeup Discourse)
....
http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2009/ ... tions.html
With the condition of eyes, forms are seen, With the condition of ears, sounds are heard, With the condition of nose, smells are smelled, With the condition of tongue, tastes are tasted, every movement or states are all one's Mind.
Soh Wei Yu
"there is no thing [phenomena] apart from mind, and no mind apart from thing[s] [phenomena]"
Soh Wei Yu
Or as 3rd Karmapa also succinctly put it:
http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2009/ ... nt-of.html
All phenomena are illusory displays of mind.
Mind is no mind--the mind's nature is empty of any entity that is mind
Being empty, it is unceasing and unimpeded,
manifesting as everything whatsoever.
Examining well, may all doubts about the ground be discerned and cut.
Naturally manifesting appearances, that never truly exist, are confused into objects. Spontaneous intelligence, under the power of ignorance, is confused into a self.
By the power of this dualistic fixation, beings wander in the realms of samsaric existence.
May ignorance, the root of confusion, he discovered and cut.
It is not existent--even the Victorious Ones do not see it.
It is not nonexistent--it is the basis of all samsara and nirvana.
This is not a contradiction, but the middle path of unity.
....
Looking at objects, the mind devoid of objects is seen;
Looking at mind, its empty nature devoid of mind is seen;
Looking at both of these, dualistic clinging is self-liberated.
May the nature of mind, the clear light nature of what is, be realised.
Wishing Prayer for the Attainment of the Ultimate Mahamudra
AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
Wishing Prayer for the Attainment of the Ultimate Mahamudra
Wishing Prayer for the Attainment of the Ultimate Mahamudra
Soh Wei Yu
Or as Arya Nagarjuna puts it,
“The cognizer perceives the cognizable;
Without the cognizable there is no cognition;
Therefore why do you not admit
That neither object nor subject exists [at all]?
The mind is but a mere name;
Apart from it's name it exists as nothing;
So view consciousness as a mere name;
Name too has no intrinsic nature.
Either within or likewise without,
Or somewhere in between the two,
The conquerors have never found the mind;
So the mind has the nature of an illusion.
The distinctions of colors and shapes,
Or that of object and subject,
Of male, female and the neuter -
The mind has no such fixed forms.
In brief the Buddhas have never seen
Nor will they ever see [such a mind];
So how can they see it as intrinsic nature
That which is devoid of intrinsic nature?
"Entity" is a conceptualization;
Absence of conceptualization is emptiness;
Where conceptualization occurs,
How can there be emptiness?
The mind in terms of perceived and perceiver,
This the Tathagatas have never seen;
Where there is the perceived and perceiver,
There is no enlightenment.
Devoid of characteristics and origination,
Devoid of substantiative reality and transcending speech,
Space, awakening mind and enlightenment
Possess the characteristics of non-duality.”
- Nagarjuna, Bodhicittavivarana
....
Soh Wei Yu
And also succinctly explained by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh and many other masters: http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2008/ ... er-of.html
Sun of Awareness and River of Perceptions
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Sun of Awareness and River of Perceptions
Sun of Awareness and River of Perceptions
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Soh Wei Yu
One more quote by John Tan,
"The purpose of anatta is to have full blown experience of the heart -- boundlessly, completely, non-dually and non-locally. Re-read what I wrote to Jax.
In every situations, in all conditions, in all events. It is to eliminate unnecessary contrivity so that our essence can be expressed without obscuration.
Jax wants to point to the heart but is unable to express in a non-dual way... for in duality, the essence cannot be realized. All dualistic interpretation are mind made. You know the smile of Mahākāśyapa? Can you touch the heart of that smile even 2500 yrs later?
One must lose all mind and body by feeling with entire mind and body this essence which is 心 (Mind). Yet 心 (Mind) too is 不可得 (ungraspable/unobtainable).. The purpose is not to deny 心 (Mind) but rather not to place any limitations or duality so that 心 (Mind) can fully manifest.
Therefore without understanding 缘 (conditions),is to limit 心 (Mind). without understanding 缘 (conditions),is to place limitation in its manifestations. You must fully experience 心 (Mind) by realizing 无心 (No-Mind) and fully embrace the wisdom of 不可得 (ungraspable/unobtainable)." - John Tan/Thusness, 2014
http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2019/ ... heart.html
The Transient Universe has a Heart
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The Transient Universe has a Heart
The Transient Universe has a Heart
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