Ajahn Brahm's method. Anyone practices it?

[Alex123]

Hello all,

I have read Ajahn Brahm's books and heard many talks on meditation.

Anyone has experience with it?
Were you able have "silent present moment awareness" without any thoughts at all?
I have tried it many times, and thoughts still occur... Even in just "present moment awareness", I get thoughts about past or future. Even if my distracting though lasts a second, I can't seem to not experience any thoughts even for one minute. I did set up the gatekeeper and gave clear instructions. But for whom does this actually work? "My" mind doesn't always listen to "me", it does its own thing.


Am I misunderstanding something?

Thanks.

[Maarten]

I think Ajahn Brahm teaches different approaches to meditation. I really like this one

I can't do any Jhanas with it, but with enough patience, the mind can become quite still. What I like best about it is that I never get any bad meditations, I always feel better afterward. Even if the mind stays relatively restless.

[Alex123]

Hello Maarten,

Where you able to set up gatekeeper and have no thoughts appear at all during your sit?


Great video clip.

[santa100]

"My" mind doesn't always listen to "me", it does its own thing.

That's the key point. The more you want to control your mind, the more it will rebel against your wish. So be patient, be gentle with your mind, you'll have a better chance of stilling it. Don't worry about the monkey mind endlessly jumping from one thought to another, but do put in the effort to immediately recognize when it does that. The moment you shine the light of mindfulness and catch it in its act, its effect will naturally weaken in terms of both strength and frequency. And with time and persistence, your mind will eventually be at peace.

[SarathW]

Hello all,

I have read Ajahn Brahm's books and heard many talks on meditation.

Anyone has experience with it?
Were you able have "silent present moment awareness" without any thoughts at all?
I have tried it many times, and thoughts still occur... Even in just "present moment awareness", I get thoughts about past or future. Even if my distracting though lasts a second, I can't seem to not experience any thoughts even for one minute. I did set up the gatekeeper and gave clear instructions. But for whom does this actually work? "My" mind doesn't always listen to "me", it does its own thing.


Am I misunderstanding something?

Thanks.

I think you will have more luck if you understand the Jhana explained in Sutta.
In second Jhana Vitakka/Vicara stops.

[Jack19990101]

Hello all,

I have read Ajahn Brahm's books and heard many talks on meditation.

Anyone has experience with it?
Were you able have "silent present moment awareness" without any thoughts at all?
I have tried it many times, and thoughts still occur... Even in just "present moment awareness", I get thoughts about past or future. Even if my distracting though lasts a second, I can't seem to not experience any thoughts even for one minute. I did set up the gatekeeper and gave clear instructions. But for whom does this actually work? "My" mind doesn't always listen to "me", it does its own thing.


Am I misunderstanding something?

Thanks.

There are two manners of thoughts - one is those unprovoked thoughts, like mental image, or a few sentences. It is Form khandas.
Another is thinking thoughts - it is Sankhara khandas.
Form khandas is similar to sight, it is vipaka, harmless and unavoidable.
Thinking is kamma and avoidable.

[Alex123]

There are two manners of thoughts - one is those unprovoked thoughts, like mental image, or a few sentences. It is Form khandas.
Another is thinking thoughts - it is Sankhara khandas.
Form khandas is similar to sight, it is vipaka, harmless and unavoidable.
Thinking is kamma and avoidable.

So do you mean that Ajahn Brahm's "silent present moment awareness", means that while unprovoked thoughts do exist, there is no deliberate/intentional thinking?


Thanks.

[Jack19990101]

I don't know much of anything of Ajahn Brahm's teaching.
The comment is based on only your post.

But for the silent present awareness, as I have understand from One single excellent Attachment sutta,
it is not a meditative state - it is a state of being with daily activities.
As in meditative state, there is no presence.

So my understanding to it, is that it is with fully functional 6 senses, there will be thoughts as form, no deliberate thinking, planing.

Basically, there is no conscience arising, no dependent origination.

[Tennok]

Hi Alex 123

There is this old paradox in meditation, that the more you want a particular result, or outcome, the more you increase the controling, craving mind, which stops you from getting there. You can't force it. The fuel must just burn out, naturally. Watch for the craving for stilness or the aversion against thoughts. Those are the hindrances. A Brahm had a nice dhamma talk about dealing with them:

https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books7/Ajah ... rances.pdf

So your controling mind has to yield. The will has to yield. The commenting critic, too. Desire of safety...many things must drop. It can be scary. Once I thought I would choke when doing breath meditation, it was like my own body tried to sufflocate me. My teacher said it's a quiet common trick. Our mind and the body - they don't wish to yield. Some subtle itchy sensation, like a giggle, would torture me for a half hour meditation round, which seemed like eternity. Or I had a strong pain signal in my knee or hip joint "I must get up or I will die or get crippled" .

In my experience, meditation can be like the Gom Jabbar in Dune, the box of pain. I would be angry, tired, agitated, and then, bach, like a magic wand touched me, all of this is gone, there is just clarity and I could meditate like for ever - or at least until the next meal or rituals happenig in the temple.

What I would recommend, if you have time and possibility, do some good, long meditation retreats. Do them when you still can, as we get older and/or have more duties and tasks, it becomes difficult. This particular method really takes time. In my experience, in the first days of the retreat, I would always think about my job, projects, past, future, etc. But mind naturaly gets still, as days pass by. After a week or two, I would sometimes experience hours of no thought state, bit similar to what Thai Forrest dudes call "luminous mind".

And, as people already said here, there are thoughts and thoughts. The little "cloud" of thought appearing in the sky of the mind once or twice is no problem, the problem is getting caught by them. So sati plays it's role here, remembering about the meditation object, etc.

good luck & metta
Tennok

[Alex123]

Thank you Tennok for your reply.

[Maarten]

Hello Maarten,

Where you able to set up gatekeeper and have no thoughts appear at all during your sit?


Great video clip.

Not even a gate keeper!

With the simile of the cup technique sometimes my mind could get very quiet, like no thoughts for multiple minutes on end. I don't do it as much anymore. I would literally just sit there and patiently wait. Sometimes the mind will incline towards the breath by itself, sometimes it would wander, but if you just wait and look at it like the water in the cup, the mind will calm down. It just takes time and patience. The best thing about this technique is that you always feel better than when you started!

[mjaviem]

... Sometimes the mind will incline towards the breath by itself...