Much of this is addressed well in a debate between Thanissaro Bhikkhu and Bhikkhu Bodhi. The discussion helped me understand my own feelings about war, killing, politics and the dhamma.
Interestingly, Bodhi here does not exclude war as being righteous. Thanissaro Bhikkhu rejects the idea of a "just" war from a Buddhist perspective.
Some of it is here:
https://archive.org/stream/InquiringMin ... 0/mode/2up
Military draft
Re: Military draft
Personally, if the war ever got over here, I would just get myself over to Thailand or Sri Lanka and ordain. If that weren't an option I would try and get into New Zealand or Canada, which probably won't be too hard to get in when you are an asylum seeker. Even if there was a draft I would probably try to get out from under it as best I could. Then if that weren't possible I would prefer the consequences of being a deserter to being out on the battlefield, which I see as complete insanity and hell on earth.
'Suppose there were a beetle, a dung-eater, full of dung, gorged with dung, with a huge pile of dung in front of him. He, because of that, would look down on other beetles: 'Yes, sirree! I am a dung-eater, full of dung, gorged with dung, with a huge pile of dung in front of me!' - SN 17.5
Re: Military draft
I am in a similar situation here in Mexico, i recite paritta chanting every time i think i am in danger, and also dedicate the merit i make like bowing down and giving to the buddha dhamma and sangha to live longer. Recite mora paritta.
- nothingworthgrasping
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Re: Military draft
Personally, I have 2 more years to be force-draft. If it happens, then I will sternly refuse. If for that reason I got imprison or death, then let it be. There's no just war, just a bunch of maniacs killing each others with made up reasons.
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Re: Military draft
If you got drafted maybe you could be a Buddhist Chaplain? They've got them in some countries militaries, but maybe not from where you're from.
Defending your city, village or family from invasion is a just war.nothingworthgrasping wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:13 am There's no just war, just a bunch of maniacs killing each others with made up reasons.
Re: Military draft
Wise those seeking for the holly life before it becomes very difficult to live, even not allowed (most countries actually don't allow going forth and don't release from duties, as a matter of no more Kings but democracy (common folk leaded)).
This way is faster closing up as most are even a little aware. It's the very last generation of gone forth in this Dhamma Vinaya.
This way is faster closing up as most are even a little aware. It's the very last generation of gone forth in this Dhamma Vinaya.
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Re: Military draft
Or could one try to become a cook, a medic, or some other peaceful non-combat?JamesTheGiant wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:58 am If you got drafted maybe you could be a Buddhist Chaplain? They've got them in some countries militaries, but maybe not from where you're from.
Re: Military draft
My person isn't aware of any western country that really allows, is even aware, of going forth. Some traditional states have constructed ways trying to fit a way gone forth, but also not really letting go, at least "Human right" confusion wouldn't understand and blame, not to speak of less willing to let go of refuge in the world. Hence, in war times, even in traditional countries, most will return to serve, good householder.JamesTheGiant wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:29 pmWhat are some countries which do not allow people to ordain? This sounds wrong, but I would be interested to know more.
It's not a matter of right, since such is wrong view, it's a matter of whether given or not and having jealous common people rule, no faith in the Gems or those going for higher, such as going forth, for the most, is just fictional.
Aware of any western monk who has layed down both, duties and rights, has left home, house, sociaty, citizenship, gone over into the homeless state under the Sakyan, become a son of the Sakyan?
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Re: Military draft
It appears the Samana is referring to going forth instead of serving in the military when called up for draft.
But if I'm not mistaken, I believe the U.S. and other countries do sometimes grant 'conscientious objector' allowance and grant some the freedom not to serve in the military. A buddhist wanting to ordain would certainly qualify to at least apply for conscientious objector status, since it violates the First Precept.
But if I'm not mistaken, I believe the U.S. and other countries do sometimes grant 'conscientious objector' allowance and grant some the freedom not to serve in the military. A buddhist wanting to ordain would certainly qualify to at least apply for conscientious objector status, since it violates the First Precept.
Re: Military draft
Sure, good Brahman David? They might be required to serve in other ways. My person guesses that homelessness isn't tolerated and such as begging is also something often not allowed. May person is not aware of a right to hold no rights in modern world.DNS wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:10 pm It appears the Samana is referring to going forth instead of serving in the military when called up for draft.
But if I'm not mistaken, I believe the U.S. and other countries do sometimes grant 'conscientious objector' allowance and grant some the freedom not to serve in the military. A buddhist wanting to ordain would certainly qualify to at least apply for conscientious objector status, since it violates the First Precept.
It's certain hard to really gain even the first, second fruit of the Samana-life in a world caught with strong wrong view.