Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualization

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and scriptures.
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nirodh27
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by nirodh27 »

frank k wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 5:53 pm It is a good idea to refrain from doing that topic , I don't think that is a "right speech compliant" topic :bow: :toast: .
Hi Frankk,

[vism. redefining jhāna] is a topic that is not only right speech, but welcomed and worthy of discussion. The Brokenbones topic "Vism. redefining Jhana is the worst thing that happened to Buddhism, even muslim invasion cannot compare" I think is not the right way, not useful and a very very debatable statement.

It can be the worst thing that happened to a single meditator, but to make an argument that is valid for "Buddhism at large" seems enormous to me. Better to avoid and frame the issue by reasoning on the suttas, the pali etc which is an important task.
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by BrokenBones »

Staying at Savatthi. "Monks, there once was a time when the Dasarahas had a large drum called 'Summoner.' Whenever Summoner was split, the Dasarahas inserted another peg in it, until the time came when Summoner's original wooden body had disappeared and only a conglomeration of pegs remained. [1]

"In the same way, in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.

"In this way the disappearance of the discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — will come about.

"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. We will lend ear, will set our hearts on knowing them, will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.' That's how you should train yourselves."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

I'm just a fundamentalist at heart 😁

I don't have any desire to defend any teachings other than the Buddha's and find it disconcerting that teachers and teachings other than the Buddha and his discourses are consumed so completely by many many 'Buddhists'...

The rewriting of Buddha Dhamma and the mythologies surrounding them is beyond ridiculous... the 'Ancients'... the 'Masters of old'... the medieval Arahants... the secret teachings that appear centuries later with the lamest cover story in history... it's like Lord of the Rings & Silmarillion rolled into one... it's a wonder wizards don't get a look in.

Were there medieval Arahants and masters of old? I'm sure there were... but I'm also sure they didn't rewrite the Dhamma.

I'm so glad that there is still strong and thriving elements in the sangha that teach (elucidate) the suttas with very little personal opinion.

I don't quite place Keren Arbel (I would need to know more) in this category but she is definitely pointing in the right direction.
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by Pulsar »

BrokenBones wrote
I don't have any desire to defend any teachings other than the Buddha's and find it disconcerting that teachers and teachings other than the Buddha and his discourses are consumed so completely by many many 'Buddhists'.
Me too.
The rewriting of Buddha Dhamma and the mythologies surrounding them is beyond ridiculous.
The issue is mythology is given preference or presented in such great detail, Buddha disappears in the razzmatazz of the myth. This phenomenon can be found even in the Sagatha Vagga, it is not completely absent there.
the 'Ancients'... the 'Masters of old'... the medieval Arahants... the secret teachings that appear centuries later with the lamest cover story in history... it's like Lord of the Rings & Silmarillion rolled into one... it's a wonder wizards don't get a look in.
Were there medieval Arahants and masters of old? I'm sure there were... but I'm also sure they didn't rewrite the Dhamma.
but we have heard that Burmese scholars were busy rewriting the suttas to match their abhidhamma. Amidst these events there are some of us who really want to guard the original Dhamma, and release it from the stronghold of Abhidhamma.
I'm so glad that there is still strong and thriving elements in the sangha that teach (elucidate) the suttas with very little personal opinion.
Thank you for that well thought out comment.
Regards :candle:
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by nirodh27 »

BrokenBones wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:14 am
"In the same way, in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.
This reminds me of a friend of mine, that started every day to send me a thought by sms, it started with Ajahns, but in years started to shift with poetry, elegant modern disciples, philosophers that seems like Dhamma, but they are not, because many things that alleviate or accept suffering seems like Dhamma, but they are not.

One day he told me that he doesn't believe that the end of (mental, not even all Dukkha) Dukkha is possible, he doesn't believe in it. It broke my heart and it is a thought that many times signed my reflections because it is a dedicated practitioner, but he follows more poetry and disciples, outsiders like Christian mysticism (which have value, but are different), but have little to no interest in the the suttas. And when I try to suggest something from the suttas... I think he will be horrified to what there is inside because I think that underlying there's a strong attachment to emotion and life.

Dhamma is for the eradication and renunciation of the world, it is not self-help to better cope with Dukkha, feel more, appreciate more the world even if it is impermanent. One can decide if wants to take a lot of little, but every practictioner should understand how it works as soon as possible.
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by frank k »

I see your point, but I actually believe brokenbones has a great point.
At first glance it sounds controversial and provocative intended to stir heated debate, but think on it more deeply.
Vajrayana and Mahayana at least, take very little time and energy for any average intelligent person to sort out and see that they differ greatly from EBT.
Theravada LBT (Vism., later Abhidamma), it seems to take quite a bit more intelligence for people to sort through LBT Theravada's false claims of complete coherence and compatability of jhāna redefinition. And further, among those minority intelligent enough to see the incontrovertible difference, Buddhists tend to be passive and not very good about proactively fighting for and protecting true Dharma for future generations.

And there are other serious problems as well.
There's a counter intuitive Dhamma teaching, that it's far better be one who clearly knows the difference between good and evil but does evil actions anyway, rather than someone who is ignorant that they are doing something evil.
The usual Buddhist thinking is, well, the ignoramus maybe had good intentions, but did something evil by accident so that karmic result is less serious. I can't explain easily how that relates to my main point, so I'll try another example.

What's more damaging, which would you rather have:
1. your best friend who you trust for everything who usually has your interests at heart, but tells some subtle lies for their own gain over yours, and your entire social circle believes your best friend's subtle lies over you?

2. an obvious crook that no one trusts anything they say to be the truth, tells lies about you to your friends.

And that's why LBT Theravada redefining jhāna is arguably far worse than other divisions in Buddhism.



nirodh27 wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:56 am
frank k wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 5:53 pm (frank didn't say this, nirodh was quoting someone else frank quoted):
It is a good idea to refrain from doing that topic , I don't think that is a "right speech compliant" topic :bow: :toast: .
Hi Frankk,

[vism. redefining jhāna] is a topic that is not only right speech, but welcomed and worthy of discussion. The Brokenbones topic "Vism. redefining Jhana is the worst thing that happened to Buddhism, even muslim invasion cannot compare" I think is not the right way, not useful and a very very debatable statement.

It can be the worst thing that happened to a single meditator, but to make an argument that is valid for "Buddhism at large" seems enormous to me. Better to avoid and frame the issue by reasoning on the suttas, the pali etc which is an important task.
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by Ceisiwr »

In other words, according to Frank, Frank is simply very very smart and Venerable Buddhaghosa is some kind of double agent for the Brahmins :spy:
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by waryoffolly »

frank k wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:30 pm Vajrayana and Mahayana at least, take very little time and energy for any average intelligent person to sort out and see that they differ greatly from EBT.
Theravada LBT (Vism., later Abhidamma), it seems to take quite a bit more intelligence for people to sort through LBT Theravada's false claims of complete coherence and compatability of jhāna redefinition. And further, among those minority intelligent enough to see the incontrovertible difference, Buddhists tend to be passive and not very good about proactively fighting for and protecting true Dharma for future generations.
There's a big difference between intelligence and rationality. Intelligent people can easily have the appearance of rationality, but the two things are not linked. Actually I'd say after a certain amount of intelligence, brilliant people are more likely to be irrational and have extreme confirmation bias. Why? Because their minds are brilliant at creating consistent narratives out of incoherent facts. It's easier for a genius to fool themselves, then an average person.

So the issue isn't intelligence IMO.
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by BrokenBones »

waryoffolly wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:34 pm
frank k wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:30 pm Vajrayana and Mahayana at least, take very little time and energy for any average intelligent person to sort out and see that they differ greatly from EBT.
Theravada LBT (Vism., later Abhidamma), it seems to take quite a bit more intelligence for people to sort through LBT Theravada's false claims of complete coherence and compatability of jhāna redefinition. And further, among those minority intelligent enough to see the incontrovertible difference, Buddhists tend to be passive and not very good about proactively fighting for and protecting true Dharma for future generations.
There's a big difference between intelligence and rationality. Intelligent people can easily have the appearance of rationality, but the two things are not linked. Actually I'd say after a certain amount of intelligence, brilliant people are more likely to be irrational and have extreme confirmation bias. Why? Because their minds are brilliant at creating consistent narratives out of incoherent facts. It's easier for a genius to fool themselves, then an average person.

So the issue isn't intelligence IMO.
I'm in with a shout then 😅
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by waryoffolly »

BrokenBones wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:06 pm I'm in with a shout then 😅
Heh, you still have to put in the careful work.

Put aside your personal biases and school affiliations, put aside your personal assumptions and beliefs, put aside what “seems obvious” to you, take a few deep breaths and open up the suttas. Pick one passage and read it slowly and carefully. Then practice it for a while, ideally with a wise teacher assisting you. Then re-read it again after a little while, then again. By the fifth or sixth time cycle of practice and reading perhaps the meaning will become clear.

If you’re highly intelligent try again an extra five or six times. Be wary of your own conceit and tendency to be dazzled and impressed by your mental creations. Try to break every view you have, until what is left is grounded and built firmly on the actual words of the suttas, and the wise instead of own your own flimsy fabrications.
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by auto »

frank k wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 1:21 pm Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualization of Insight



I've updated my database of

Teachers who teach 4 Jhānas according to EBT (Early Buddhist Teachings), not LBT redefinition of jhāna :

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... ectly.html

with an entry for Keren Arbel, and a link to her free essay summarizing her excellent but expensive book:

Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualization of Insight
link doesn't work
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by Ceisiwr »

BrokenBones wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:54 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:28 pm
BrokenBones wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:08 pm

Exactly... none of those... their mistaken views are visible a mile off... the Visuddhimagga is the fifth columnist which is profoundly more destructive.
Given the number of people who adhere to those views, apparently the error within them is not so easily visible. I'm still confused as to how evil Dr Buddhaghosa and his wicked manual of insidious practices is working in such a subversive manner as you imply, when according to non-absorbed standards the meditation therein does lead to states which are claimed to be Jhāna? I'm further confused since fifth columnists actively set out to bring down that which they operate within. Are you suggesting that Venerable Buddhaghosa and the Theras of Sri Lanka actively set out to undermine and destroy the Dhamma? Big if true.
🤣

Now you're getting it... although whether that was the aim or not is irrelevant... the day that this tome was set up as irrefutable Buddha Dhamma was a dark day... it's not all bad (from memory the sila section was generally sound) but the earth kasina and anapanasati sections are risible when compared to the Buddha's teachings.
I'm really not getting this Buddhaghosa/Visuddhimagga fetish at all. Plenty of manuals, commentaries and texts in general have been produced which put forward what their authors think is the best or correct understanding of the Dhamma. The Abhidharma Mahāvibhāṣa Śāstra, the Yogācārabhūmi-Śāstra, the Vimuttimagga and so on. Were all of them subversives looking to actively destroy the Dhamma? Very, very unlikely. IMO they were produced by honest and faithful monks (and possibly nuns) who simply reached different conclusions to me (on the parts I disagree with).
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by BrokenBones »

waryoffolly wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:25 pm
BrokenBones wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:06 pm I'm in with a shout then 😅
Heh, you still have to put in the careful work.

Put aside your personal biases and school affiliations, put aside your personal assumptions and beliefs, put aside what “seems obvious” to you, take a few deep breaths and open up the suttas. Pick one passage and read it slowly and carefully. Then practice it for a while, ideally with a wise teacher assisting you. Then re-read it again after a little while, then again. By the fifth or sixth time cycle of practice and reading perhaps the meaning will become clear.

If you’re highly intelligent try again an extra five or six times. Be wary of your own conceit and tendency to be dazzled and impressed by your mental creations. Try to break every view you have, until what is left is grounded and built firmly on the actual words of the suttas, and the wise instead of own your own flimsy fabrications.
I think you'll find the pupil finds a teacher and not vice versa... not that your advice isn't good... just a bit presumptuous.
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by waryoffolly »

BrokenBones wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:37 pm I think you'll find the pupil finds a teacher and not vice versa... not that your advice isn't good... just a bit presumptuous.
The second part of my post was meant for people in general who are reading this thread. If you already approach things that way then that’s excellent IMO.
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by BrokenBones »

Ceisiwr wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:36 pm
BrokenBones wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:54 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:28 pm

🤣

I'm really not getting this Buddhaghosa/Visuddhimagga fetish at all. Plenty of manuals, commentaries and texts in general have been produced which put forward what their authors think is the best or correct understanding of the Dhamma. The Abhidharma Mahāvibhāṣa Śāstra, the Yogācārabhūmi-Śāstra, the Vimuttimagga and so on. Were all of them subversives looking to actively destroy the Dhamma? Very, very unlikely. IMO they were produced by honest and faithful monks (and possibly nuns) who simply reached different conclusions to me (on the parts I disagree with).
The issue (as I see it) is that these 'manuals, texts & commentaries' have been put forward as either equivalent to the Buddha's teachings and in some countries surpass the masters teachings. They have become part of the canon as if they are unimpeachable and the words of the Buddha.

If I read a book from Bhante Gunaratana, I am under no illusion that this book is one man's take on the Dhamma and his explanations may or may not be completely accurate. It's a personal opinion as to whether I agree or not (I find he's pretty much spot on most of the time). What is not done by myself, Bhante G himself or the Theravada sangha at large is put the book on the same par as the suttas and declare its contents as 'the Buddha's teaching'.

It is Bhante G's teaching and his interpretation of the Buddha's teaching... Bhante G would I'm sure agree that this is so.

The 'Arahant' Daniel Ingram 🤣 has also written many books/articles... it's your personal opinion to accept his teaching or not 🤢... are we to take Bhante G's and Daniel Ingram's works as canonical & unimpeachable?

What is the difference between a modern day book that misrepresents the Buddha and an 'Ancient' book that does the same? Time seems to lend an authenticity to works that don't deserve it.

Do Christians today look to Papal declarations made at the time of the Spanish Inquisition for inspiration? I'm sure they look back and recognise that their church lost its way. All religions & organisations undergo subversion from within.

I won't go as far as to say Buddhaghosa was subversive but I see his Visuddhimagga as a big departure from the Buddha's teachings.
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Re: Free introductory essay to Keren Arbel's excellent book: Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhānas as the Actualiza

Post by AlexBrains92 »

nirodh27 wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:12 pm
BrokenBones wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:52 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:46 pm Venerable Anālayo gives his critique of Keren Arbel’s interpretation in his new book: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HnlKe8 ... dTJ2A/view
I would say it highlights problems he has with her conclusions rather than the approach she hints at taking (I've only skimmed it). I say hints at because I've not seen written down her actual approach to meditation.
I had the time to read the document, I will share some notes:

Keren Arbel:
“the fourth jhāna should be recognized as the actualization of wisdom,” as it is through its attainment that one “might finally break ignorance completely and awaken the mind”
I would argue that the notion that the jhānas have delusive power is quite problematic. On the contrary, they seem to have the uttermost potential to eradicate delusion completely.
Analayo
Such a proposition is difficult to reconcile with passages in the early discourses that highlight the potentially deluding nature of absorption experiences.
I've read the suggested pages of Analayo and the very few passages that he cites are mainly about the possibility of revert back after the experience of Jhana, with the four famous similes that are also in the agamas and I think I've copied-pasted elsewhere here on Dhammawheel. Jhanas are not definitive and if one goes back to talk, to enjoy company the "jhana effect" can dissolve as well as the wisdom, which means that all the path factors reverts back. Since Keren Arbel doesn't speak about the jhanas being liberation itself, but something that inclines you and that has potential (dictionary: "having or showing the capacity to develop into something in the future") to eradicate delusion, I don't think that this critique stands at all. If we take the cook simile everything is in line: it is like a cook that doesn't look at the preferences of his master, that forgets, that is superficial and he loses his wealth (both the jhanas and sati-sampajanno).

Other points of Analayo are that one can attach to jhana or think that is liberation. Ok, it is good to point out, but the fact itself that one can confuse jhanas with liberation can mean that there's already a great deal of realization and wisdom inside them. That jhanas are the actualization of the wisdom of the meditator is another key point that is testimonied by the fact that every jhana requires wisdom and in third and fourth there's sati-sampajanno. Still, there's still a step from jhanas to the destruction of the asavas, only there the break of ignorance is really complete.

The conclusion of Analayo:
Needless to say, this does not imply that absorption does not have much to offer for progress on the path to awakening. The point I am making is only that, to offer this contribution, absorption needs to be combined with insight and in particular to be practiced without giving rise to attachment.
This is well-explained in MA102. First with yoniso manasikara you get insight, then in first jhana you strenghten insight and get new insights from the (new) point of view of renunciation, that seems to me a perfect place to deepen the understanding of the Dhamma (MA102 speaks about thoughts in accordance with the Dhamma). The nature of third and fourth jhana I think is not very clear from the suttas, I'm inclined to think that those are description of states that can be mantained outside formal meditation, but I have no certainty. Still, on a reading that is not the one of one-pointedness at minimum first jhana can be combined with insight with a new vantage point.

This explains why there can be insight during a Dhamma talk, that is Simply the Vitakka&Vicara of another person. To not get attached to the Jhanas is a good idea, and the passages seems to imply that the main reason is that one can still be prey of Dukkha, which of course is true since one can revert back. At the same time we cannot negate that when one arrives to a level of renunciation of the fourth jhana, have a celestial experience of the world and a strong inclination to the Dhamma, so it is unlikely that it will revert back and wisdom is there, is actualized in the behaviour and perception of the meditator.

For the discovery of jhanas, I don't think that we can rely too much on the historical accounts in the suttas (especially discussions with jains that cab be later apologetic addictions) and I think that many practices were called jhanas at a time and were practices very different from one and another (like the mortification practices of the Buddha pre-awakening, those were called jhanas as well).

What is important is the unique usage and progression and the significance given by the Buddha. To use that pleasure in the peculiar ways and goals the Buddha prescribed and highlighted. Since Sati is recollection of the teachings, the jhanas of the Buddha are de facto unique precisely because the right view behind them is unique. That is all that matters for me. The pleasure of renunciation per se cannot be a peculiar discovery of the Buddha (a significant discovery is the attachments to ditthis as a form of suffering, while before everyone was in search of acquiring selves hoping of getting happiness), but it is still used, presented and understood from the peculiar and innovative point of view of the Dhamma.
From this perspective, it is unsurprising to find that the awakening factors also cover the territory of tranquility. It does not follow, however, that their cultivation can be equated with absorption attainment.
The cultivation of the seven factors and the jhanas are clearly linked, but there's value in Analayo's critique, apart from the fact that I don't remember such a strong statement from Arbel, but nonethless:
Whereas three of the seven awakening factors have a calm-ing effect on the mind (tranquility, concentration, and equanim-ity/equipoise),119 another three have the opposite effect, as they rather arouse the mind (investigation-of-dharmas, energy, and joy). The last three have in fact no proper counterpart in the standard description of the four absorptions.
Arbel (2017: 106 and 107) proposes to relate investigation-of-dharmas and energy to the task of establishing seclusion from sensuality and unwholesome states, that is, seclusion from the hindrances. The main problem with this proposal, which is anyway not without additional difficulties, 120 is that progress through the four absorptions requires the previous establishing of such seclusion. If these two awakening factors find no better match than in the context of such preliminary
work, it follows that they lack a proper counterpart in the process of actually attaining the four absorptions.
Still, the conclusion
The above considerations make it rather unconvincing to consider the four absorptions and the seven awakening factors to represent “parallel models of spiritual ascension” or “differ-ent formulations of the same spiritual process.” Despite some overlap, these are different modalities of meditation practice.
is unconvincing in the last part, I don't see "different modalities of practice", as Analayo suggests. The parallel is there, but simply not complete. In fact the Sati > Dhamma-vicaya > Energy is the preliminary work of MA102. The progression is the same, but Jhanas simply starts after the first three steps, before there's yoniso manasikara or, for some, satipatthana. MA102, again, describe the process in detail.
Regarding the main thesis that absorption is a form of lib-
erating insight in its own right, an actual occurrence of this
idea can be found in a Dīgha-nikāya discourse. In this case, all
extant parallels support this presentation. The actual proposition
takes the form of considering each of the four absorptions to
be equivalent to the attainment of Nirvana here and now, and
here this is meant not just in a relative sense.
The Pāli discourse in question is the Brahmajāla-sutta. In
agreement with its parallels, it attributes these four views to
non-Buddhist practitioners.124 Such ideas are deemed to be as
mistaken as a fifth position, discussed in the same context in the
Brahmajāla-sutta and its parallels, according to which the at-
tainment of Nirvana here and now is to be found in the enjoy-
ment of sensual objects. This clear-cut indication confirms the
impression that an otherwise justified attempt by Arbel (2017)
to step out of the rigid division between tranquility and insight,
found in later traditions, has gone overboard and led to an even
more unbalanced position, by way of subsuming everything else
under the supposedly overarching importance of absorption.
Here Analayo simply does a straw-man, since one thing is to say that jhana

"inclines you to Nibbana",
"jhanas are conducive to awakening"
"I have come to understand the attainment of the four jhanas as the outcome of both
calming the mind and developing insight into the nature of experience, and that which
allow the practitioner to further de-condition ignorance and unwholesome mental
tendencies. In other words, they are an integral dimension of the path to awakening".

another is to equate them with Nibbana itself, which Arbel, if I remember correctly, never suggests. I hope to have misread this or missed something big, because I really don't like what Analayo did here.
:goodpost:

«He does not construct even the subtlest apperception with regard
to what is seen, heard or thought; how would one conceptualise
that Brahmin in this world, who does not appropriate a view?

They do not fabricate, they do not prefer, they do not accept any
doctrine; the Brahmin cannot be inferred through virtue or vows,
such a person has gone to the far shore and does not fall back.»


- Snp 4.5 -
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