Is owning a diner wrong livelihood?

[kenteramin]

I’m considering starting, co-starting a business.
I wonder if a diner, a restaurant counts as trading in meat?
I have the same question about owning a grocery store.

I am also a coffee enjoyer. Is owning a coffee shop wrong livelihood?

[tamdrin]

Owning a coffee shop is a good job. Why not? You can make people happy. I'm not sure about a grocery store as they tend to sell alcohol...

[SarathW]

"Monks, a lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison.

"These are the five types of business that a lay follower should not engage in."

In my opinion, the business in meat refers hear only if you kill an animal and sell it. But killing an animal is already prohibited in five precepts. Perhaps this may extend a little bit if you order the meat and as a result, someone kills the animal.
Coffe does not include in the above list. But if you use slave labor to grow coffee could be a different story.

For monks, the wrong livelihood extends to many other matters.
As a layman do not too much bog down with this sort of issue but make sure that you follow the five precepts first then the eight precepts.

It is no point that you don't sell meat but break the five precepts.

[Ceisiwr]

I’m considering starting, co-starting a business.
I wonder if a diner, a restaurant counts as trading in meat?
I have the same question about owning a grocery store.

I am also a coffee enjoyer. Is owning a coffee shop wrong livelihood?

It would be the butcher who sells you the meat who is engaging in wrong livelihood. If you sold alcohol though that might be an issue. Nothing wrong with a coffee store.

[asahi]

Try vegetarian restaurant maybe

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Vaṇijjāsuttavaṇṇanā
(AA.iii.303)

Commentary on the Vaṇijjā Sutta
Business (vaṇijjā) means trading as a means of livelihood (vāṇijakammāni).¹ By a lay disciple (upāsakenā) means by one who has taken the three refuges (tisaraṇagatena). Business in weapons (satthavaṇijjā) means having made weapons (āvudhabhaṇḍaṃ kāretvā), he sells them (vikkayo). Business in living beings (sattavaṇijjā) ² means selling human beings (manussavikkayo). Business in flesh (maṃsavaṇijjā) means having raised pigs (sūkara), deer and so forth (migādayo), he sells them. Business in intoxicants (majjavaṇijjā) ³ means having made whatever kind (yaṃ kiñci) of intoxicants (majjaṃ), he sells them. Business in poisons (visavaṇijjā) ⁴ means having made poisons (visaṃ kāretvā), he sells them. Thus one should neither engage in any of these businesses oneself (neva attanā kātuṃ), nor urge others to engage in them (na pare samādapetvā kāretuṃ).⁵

Notes:
1. Making a livelihood by buying and selling, or by making and selling.
2. The Commentary specifies trading in human beings (for slavery, prostitution, or trafficking), so we can infer that trading in other living beings such as for work, e.g. horses, oxen, guard dogs, or as pets is not unsuitable. Trading living beings for their meat (or fur) is covered by trading in flesh.
3. Both fermented and distilled intoxicants are included. By the words “yaṃ kiñci” and by using the four great standards, recreational drugs are included.
4. Whatever toxins are designed to kill living beings, whether human beings, vermin, or insects.
5. Neither is it proper to condone it or speak in praise of it.

[dharmacorps]

Only problem I could see is pest control. If the health inspector finds something, you could be required to put out kill traps or sprays. I don't see anything wrong with coffee.

[SarathW]

Only problem I could see is pest control. If the health inspector finds something, you could be required to put out kill traps or sprays. I don't see anything wrong with coffee.

Even a coffee shop requires pest control.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

The commentary shared above by Bhikkhu Pesala suggests that even selling alcohol is fine, so long as you didn't make it yourself... so keep the homebrew off the menu, and you're good to go!



Metta,
Paul.

[asahi]

Greetings,

The commentary shared above by Bhikkhu Pesala suggests that even selling alcohol is fine, so long as you didn't make it yourself... so keep the homebrew off the menu, and you're good to go!



Metta,
Paul.

Having made intoxicants he sell them , doesnt it means both make and sell . So buddhist cant sell alcohol .

[asahi]

Only problem I could see is pest control. If the health inspector finds something, you could be required to put out kill traps or sprays. I don't see anything wrong with coffee.

Even a coffee shop requires pest control.

Pest control isnt in one control as it required by rules .
So the intention wasnt to kill but to sanitize to keep the cleanliness .

[kenteramin]

Thank you all!

Thank you Bhante

[retrofuturist]

Greetings asahi,

Greetings,

The commentary shared above by Bhikkhu Pesala suggests that even selling alcohol is fine, so long as you didn't make it yourself... so keep the homebrew off the menu, and you're good to go!



Metta,
Paul.

Having made intoxicants he sell them , doesnt it means both make and sell . So buddhist cant sell alcohol .

Sure it does. Take a look at the human trafficking / slavery one.... no mention of "making" in that offence. Alcohol on the other hand explicitly says, "Business in intoxicants (majjavaṇijjā)  means having made whatever kind (yaṃ kiñci) of intoxicants (majjaṃ), he sells them."

I'm sorry if the Commentary doesn't say what you think it should.

Metta,
Paul.

[asahi]

Greetings asahi,

Greetings,

The commentary shared above by Bhikkhu Pesala suggests that even selling alcohol is fine, so long as you didn't make it yourself... so keep the homebrew off the menu, and you're good to go!



Metta,
Paul.

Having made intoxicants he sell them , doesnt it means both make and sell . So buddhist cant sell alcohol .

Sure it does. Take a look at the human trafficking / slavery one.... no mention of "making" in that offence. Alcohol on the other hand explicitly says, "Business in intoxicants (majjavaṇijjā)  means having made whatever kind (yaṃ kiñci) of intoxicants (majjaṃ), he sells them."

I'm sorry if the Commentary doesn't say what you think it should.

Metta,
Paul.

You meant buddhist can sell alcohol .
I dont quite understand the language perhaps . But i take it to mean either making or selling intoxicants are prohibit by the precept .

[retrofuturist]

Greetings asahi,

You meant buddhist can sell alcohol .
I dont quite understand the language perhaps . But i take it to mean either making or selling intoxicants are prohibit by the precept .

If you believe the Commentary, it seems to be equivalent to meat in terms of how it's regarded.

You can't make the meat and sell it, but if it's already been made by someone else, you can sell it.

Unless someone wants to suggest that the translation of the Commentary provided by Bhikkhu Pesala is in error.



Metta,
Paul.