Overcoming sexual desire in the hypersexualized modern culture

[auto]

If you can find a monastic community you like, live there keeping 8 precepts for an extended period of time, that gives you confidence you can do it, the longer the better, and the more you have an ingrained habit of voluntarily living a physically and mentally secluded lifestyle from the hindrances.

i think it doesn't work like that.

[auto]

Another concrete example using the above passage:

I was a hardcore meat eater when I was young. I enjoyed the taste of meat as much as anyone.
I became vegetarian when I was around 18, and it was easy because I focused my attention to this subha and asubha nimitta:
Whenever I saw food, saw meat, I didn't pay attention to the subha nimtta of "yum, delicious smell of meat, taste of meat, texture of meat".
Instead, I focused on the asubha nimitta of, "this was once a living being, that wanted to live, not to die. That wanted to be happy, not suffer the trauma of being murdered."
I was never tempted again in my life to eat meat due to its subha nimattas, and becoming vegetarian was really easy and no challenge at all. This was from staying focused on the asubha nimittas.
(I didn't know those sutta passages back then, was a novice meditator, just reflecting back now seeing that's how I overcame meat eating so easily, was due to the efficacy and principles of that sutta).

Problem is that it is not nimitta what you are talking here. Perhaps kamma object, which produced you those conditions of being able to be meat free easily this life. Like some can eat one meal a day with ease.

[auto]

First of all, to get enought energy to work through this defilement one need to set up his mind on the Right Intention.
One of the aspects of Right Intention is renounciation (sense restraint, etc). If one's mind is well established on the way to renounciation then he will be willing to work with it.

Mind doesn't care about what you are thinking, mind won't be eager for renunciation if sensual desires aren't satisfied, completed. Sense restraint is pointless if you not have any desire for pleasure and there is no desire for pleasure if not see how they are beneficial. If you get aroused, then literally its a good object what you are perceiving.

[Alino]

First of all, to get enought energy to work through this defilement one need to set up his mind on the Right Intention.
One of the aspects of Right Intention is renounciation (sense restraint, etc). If one's mind is well established on the way to renounciation then he will be willing to work with it.

Mind doesn't care about what you are thinking, mind won't be eager for renunciation if sensual desires aren't satisfied, completed. Sense restraint is pointless if you not have any desire for pleasure and there is no desire for pleasure if not see how they are beneficial. If you get aroused, then literally its a good object what you are perceiving.

Iam not sure if i understand well the meaning of what you saying, but the mind is a kind muscle - it can be trained. So be frequent examination of drawbacks of sense stimulations, day after day, you mind will develop clear sight of these drawbacks while encountering the object of desire and it will not arise, or arise less...

Iam sorry i will give example from my own experience how i worked with sex drawbacks. What are drawback of sexual activity that i frequently recollect:
- sex is time consuming (you need to find a girl or boyfriend, you need to entertain him or her etc)
- its money consuming
- it needs a lot of physical effort
- you becomes dirty in body (transpiration, ejaculation etc)
- your affairs becomes dirty (your bed etc)
- your mind becomes dirty (its an animal state of mind, lower and havier state of mind, especially if you train sati it becomes difficult to switch from clearness and rightousness of the sati to the havy and wild animal state)
- your wife or girlfriend could actualy have been your friend, your brother, your sister, your mother, your father. .. its disgusting
- actually sex is just creating pressure (physical and emotional) and releasing this pressure. You create dukkha and then when suddenly its gone you feel pleasure... its quite stupid i think to create dukkha (pressure) just for the fun to be released from it...
- and what is most sad, is that the pleasure of it is really fast and really superficial... The pleasure of meditation is much more profound and long-lasting, is like compare a matchstick heat and a sun heat...

As conserning porno its just slavery and violance and even less pleasure then sex...

So one need to find out what he considers to be drawbacks and then mind will naturaly not be attracted by it. If trained well enough, even in dreams you will restrain yourself even if naked beatiful womans will surround you and try to get sex with you... you just see it as hollow and useless thing to do...

Training is possible, just need 5 indrya and 5 bala to be develloped : faith, effort, mindfullness, samadhi, wisdom

[auto]

Iam not sure if i understand well the meaning of what you saying, but the mind is a kind muscle - it can be trained. So be frequent examination of drawbacks of sense stimulations, day after day, you mind will develop clear sight of these drawbacks while encountering the object of desire and it will not arise, or arise less...

So you are literally teaching lying to yourself.

- and what is most sad, is that the pleasure of it is really fast and really superficial... The pleasure of meditation is much more profound and long-lasting, is like compare a matchstick heat and a sun heat...

object of meditation is acquired from the actions done in the sensual world. There isn't action called meditation - it is you having mental object acquired from the senses. With mental object one anticipates sensual pleasure(what instigates actions in sensual world) so that you won't have to.

based on what you said here, i can assume it isn't working for you,

Here is just some reflections that I think can help in overcoming sense sphere. I not overcome it myself yet, but I wanted to share some observations about this beautiful practice. I encourage everybody to give it a try - you will not regret...

[Alino]

Iam not sure if i understand well the meaning of what you saying, but the mind is a kind muscle - it can be trained. So be frequent examination of drawbacks of sense stimulations, day after day, you mind will develop clear sight of these drawbacks while encountering the object of desire and it will not arise, or arise less...

So you are literally teaching lying to yourself.

- and what is most sad, is that the pleasure of it is really fast and really superficial... The pleasure of meditation is much more profound and long-lasting, is like compare a matchstick heat and a sun heat...

object of meditation is acquired from the actions done in the sensual world. There isn't action called meditation - it is you having mental object acquired from the senses. With mental object one anticipates sensual pleasure(what instigates actions in sensual world) so that you won't have to.

based on what you said here, i can assume it isn't working for you,

Here is just some reflections that I think can help in overcoming sense sphere. I not overcome it myself yet, but I wanted to share some observations about this beautiful practice. I encourage everybody to give it a try - you will not regret...

No, it's not lying, because these aspects really exist. Its just changing of the focus on others aspects that are habitually hidden by delusion.

It's not a quick thing to do to uproot sense desire and hatred, it demands time and constant effort. So yes iam not Anagami and i still suffer from sense desire and hatred, but by doing the work, by means of Right Effort, life becomes much easier and simple to live. Imagine that you have no more need to seek for a girlfriend, to masturbate, to listen to the music, to watch movies, to eat only tasty food etc... Mind feels so good that you just have no any suffering towards these objects... Its a great relief!

Happiness is a feeling of being full, complete, nothing lacking.
Happy mind is a composed mind.
Composure of the mind is develloped by training of sati, meditation, seclusion...

Joyfull mind is a light mind
Lightness of mind is developped by training of renounciation, guarding of senses, generosity, morality...

So by sincere following of the N8P mind naturally gain non-sensual sources of pleasure. In order to abandon sense desire and ill will Dhamma should be a way of life, and cover every aspect of ones life.

PS there is the same work to do with hatred - frequent examination of drawbacks and dangers of hatred, so little by little mind becomes dispassionate towards fighting with others etc. Happy and joyfull mind, composed and light mind have no needs to fight... he feels already good... so why fighting and expose one's mind to all kind of stimulations?

8 precept practice is often associated with some kind of depressive and ascetic practice but once mind is established in it it feels really happy and joyfull and can not live a stimulated way of life anymore, just because its too havy, too complicate, too time consuming...

As said Ajahn Sucitto : "when people see monks in their forest kutis, they think that they are really lead an ascetic life... but in true they are just completely blissed out!^^"

[auto]

No, it's not lying, because these aspects really exist. Its just changing of the focus on others aspects that are habitually hidden by delusion.

There is difference between mastering infatuation(mada) and avoiding it. The condition for mastering to be possible is to know what the dhamma without substratum of existence(upadhi) is. So that you wouldn't come identified with the dhamma which were obtained during the making of the kamma - in short, you won't find infatuation in yourself despite being infatuated.
That is one of the sides of being incarnated or having a life(jivita).

[Alino]

No, it's not lying, because these aspects really exist. Its just changing of the focus on others aspects that are habitually hidden by delusion.

There is difference between mastering infatuation(mada) and avoiding it. The condition for mastering to be possible is to know what the dhamma without substratum of existence(upadhi) is. So that you wouldn't come identified with the dhamma which were obtained during the making of the kamma - in short, you won't find infatuation in yourself despite being infatuated.
That is one of the sides of being incarnated or having a life(jivita).

Iam sorry but your formulation of phrases is too complicated for me, i dont really sure to understand the meaning of it...

[auto]

Iam sorry but your formulation of phrases is too complicated for me, i dont really sure to understand the meaning of it...

no worries.

[StrivingforMonkhood]

First of all, to get enought energy to work through this defilement one need to set up his mind on the Right Intention.
One of the aspects of Right Intention is renounciation (sense restraint, etc). If one's mind is well established on the way to renounciation then he will be willing to work with it.

Mind doesn't care about what you are thinking, mind won't be eager for renunciation if sensual desires aren't satisfied, completed. Sense restraint is pointless if you not have any desire for pleasure and there is no desire for pleasure if not see how they are beneficial. If you get aroused, then literally its a good object what you are perceiving.

Iam not sure if i understand well the meaning of what you saying, but the mind is a kind muscle - it can be trained. So be frequent examination of drawbacks of sense stimulations, day after day, you mind will develop clear sight of these drawbacks while encountering the object of desire and it will not arise, or arise less...

Iam sorry i will give example from my own experience how i worked with sex drawbacks. What are drawback of sexual activity that i frequently recollect:
- sex is time consuming (you need to find a girl or boyfriend, you need to entertain him or her etc)
- its money consuming
- it needs a lot of physical effort
- you becomes dirty in body (transpiration, ejaculation etc)
- your affairs becomes dirty (your bed etc)
- your mind becomes dirty (its an animal state of mind, lower and havier state of mind, especially if you train sati it becomes difficult to switch from clearness and rightousness of the sati to the havy and wild animal state)
- your wife or girlfriend could actualy have been your friend, your brother, your sister, your mother, your father. .. its disgusting
- actually sex is just creating pressure (physical and emotional) and releasing this pressure. You create dukkha and then when suddenly its gone you feel pleasure... its quite stupid i think to create dukkha (pressure) just for the fun to be released from it...
- and what is most sad, is that the pleasure of it is really fast and really superficial... The pleasure of meditation is much more profound and long-lasting, is like compare a matchstick heat and a sun heat...

As conserning porno its just slavery and violance and even less pleasure then sex...

So one need to find out what he considers to be drawbacks and then mind will naturaly not be attracted by it. If trained well enough, even in dreams you will restrain yourself even if naked beatiful womans will surround you and try to get sex with you... you just see it as hollow and useless thing to do...

Training is possible, just need 5 indrya and 5 bala to be develloped : faith, effort, mindfullness, samadhi, wisdom

Amazing post! Complete truth.

[bpallister]

actually our fantasizing and thinking about it … is the main problem.

I don’t fantasize


Too dangerous

what about fantasizing about the jhanas?

[auto]

..

Seeing beautiful form one get touched by a pleasant feeling and if body is weak(not developed) it causes lust to rise in heart. That lust gives rise to kamma, a desire to stimulate desire - to have desire for things; a bond, a tie. Without bond there isn't awakening. Without experiencing the kamma result, awakening won't happen. Fetter, bond, attachment is what is the past, present and future, where things happen, an existence.

Simply seeing beautiful form, can cause bodily kamma. But the lust is not necessary middleman if one knows the result of the kamma in advance. And thus one doesn't need experience the result of the kamma to awaken.
Dispassion in heart is what rises when you know the kamma result, and the attachment/bond doesn't arise.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

“Having seen a form one loses mindfulness. Getting involved in the attraction of it, one feels the onset of desire that tries to imbibe it.”

“A multitude of passions such as covetousness and vexation, springing from form, torments one who takes a firm hold of it, with the result that his mind surely becomes impaired. There­fore, nibbāna remains remote from one who would rather carry the burden of suffering than practise meditation.”

“Passion remains undeveloped in him who recollects with mindfulness the form that he has seen. Thus freed from lust, he refuses to imbibe it.”

Looking at a visible object, a meditator just sees it and just feels that he sees it, without conceptualising it. With this, suffering ceases. One who practises in this way is said to be near to nibbāna.”

“Having heard a sound, one loses mindful­ness. Getting involved in the attraction of it, one feels the onset of desire that tries to imbibe it.”

...

“Having thought of a mind object, one loses mind­ful­ness. Getting involved in the attraction of it, one feels the onset of desire that tries to imbibe it.”

“A multitude of passions such as covetousness and vexation, springing from ideas, torments one who takes a firm hold of it, with the result that his mind surely becomes impaired. Therefore, nibbāna remains remote from one who would rather carry the burden of suffering than practise meditation.”

“Passion remains undeveloped in him who recollects with mindfulness the idea he has known. Thus freed from lust, he refuses to imbibe it.”

“Passion remains undeveloped in him who recollects with mindfulness the idea he has known. Thus freed from lust, he refuses to imbibe it.”

A Discourse on the Mālukyaputta Sutta

[auto]

No, it's not lying, because these aspects really exist. Its just changing of the focus on others aspects that are habitually hidden by delusion.

It's not a quick thing to do to uproot sense desire and hatred, it demands time and constant effort. So yes iam not Anagami and i still suffer from sense desire and hatred, but by doing the work, by means of Right Effort, life becomes much easier and simple to live. Imagine that you have no more need to seek for a girlfriend, to masturbate, to listen to the music, to watch movies, to eat only tasty food etc... Mind feels so good that you just have no any suffering towards these objects... Its a great relief!

I get what you say with seeking a girlfriend etc. But the way you try to achieve it is avoidance and doesn't cut it.
During nocturnal happening, in brain occurs something what is known as o-gasm and there will be semen emission. If mind and body is developed enough there will be no semen emission, the feeling is mental only, nor does it need sexual themed dream. Nor does it take away craving, it is removed on waking state. If you can't have mental copulation to occur on waking state, then you are still far from being free of craving and seeking. Sexual theme attack would start affect the 3rd psychic point in belly not the lower 2nd point.
Hatred? holy moly that's a pipe dream. Per some source, if you would be more free of hatred then your body would regenerate ridiculously fast.

[Ontheway]

First of all, to get enought energy to work through this defilement one need to set up his mind on the Right Intention.
One of the aspects of Right Intention is renounciation (sense restraint, etc). If one's mind is well established on the way to renounciation then he will be willing to work with it.

Mind doesn't care about what you are thinking, mind won't be eager for renunciation if sensual desires aren't satisfied, completed. Sense restraint is pointless if you not have any desire for pleasure and there is no desire for pleasure if not see how they are beneficial. If you get aroused, then literally its a good object what you are perceiving.

Iam not sure if i understand well the meaning of what you saying, but the mind is a kind muscle - it can be trained. So be frequent examination of drawbacks of sense stimulations, day after day, you mind will develop clear sight of these drawbacks while encountering the object of desire and it will not arise, or arise less...

Iam sorry i will give example from my own experience how i worked with sex drawbacks. What are drawback of sexual activity that i frequently recollect:
- sex is time consuming (you need to find a girl or boyfriend, you need to entertain him or her etc)
- its money consuming
- it needs a lot of physical effort
- you becomes dirty in body (transpiration, ejaculation etc)
- your affairs becomes dirty (your bed etc)
- your mind becomes dirty (its an animal state of mind, lower and havier state of mind, especially if you train sati it becomes difficult to switch from clearness and rightousness of the sati to the havy and wild animal state)
- your wife or girlfriend could actualy have been your friend, your brother, your sister, your mother, your father. .. its disgusting
- actually sex is just creating pressure (physical and emotional) and releasing this pressure. You create dukkha and then when suddenly its gone you feel pleasure... its quite stupid i think to create dukkha (pressure) just for the fun to be released from it...
- and what is most sad, is that the pleasure of it is really fast and really superficial... The pleasure of meditation is much more profound and long-lasting, is like compare a matchstick heat and a sun heat...

As conserning porno its just slavery and violance and even less pleasure then sex...

So one need to find out what he considers to be drawbacks and then mind will naturaly not be attracted by it. If trained well enough, even in dreams you will restrain yourself even if naked beatiful womans will surround you and try to get sex with you... you just see it as hollow and useless thing to do...

Training is possible, just need 5 indrya and 5 bala to be develloped : faith, effort, mindfullness, samadhi, wisdom

This is a powerful message.

It reminds me of this sutta delivered by Venerable Ananda Thera:

"This body, sister, comes into being through food. And yet it is by relying on food that food is to be abandoned.

"This body comes into being through craving. And yet it is by relying on craving that craving is to be abandoned.

"This body comes into being through conceit. And yet it is by relying on conceit that conceit is to be abandoned.

"This body comes into being through sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse is to be abandoned. With regard to sexual intercourse, the Buddha declares the cutting off of the bridge."

Bhikkhuni Sutta (AN 4.159)