Overcoming sexual desire in the hypersexualized modern culture

[auto]

Iam sorry i will give example from my own experience how i worked with sex drawbacks. What are drawback of sexual activity that i frequently recollect:
- sex is time consuming (you need to find a girl or boyfriend, you need to entertain him or her etc)
- its money consuming
- it needs a lot of physical effort
- you becomes dirty in body (transpiration, ejaculation etc)
- your affairs becomes dirty (your bed etc)
- your mind becomes dirty (its an animal state of mind, lower and havier state of mind, especially if you train sati it becomes difficult to switch from clearness and rightousness of the sati to the havy and wild animal state)
- your wife or girlfriend could actualy have been your friend, your brother, your sister, your mother, your father. .. its disgusting
- actually sex is just creating pressure (physical and emotional) and releasing this pressure. You create dukkha and then when suddenly its gone you feel pleasure... its quite stupid i think to create dukkha (pressure) just for the fun to be released from it...
- and what is most sad, is that the pleasure of it is really fast and really superficial... The pleasure of meditation is much more profound and long-lasting, is like compare a matchstick heat and a sun heat...

Look at this Sutta and get an idea what infatuation, intoxication means. Lust makes it so that you have no idea that you had training or discipline. Training about reflecting on drawbacks go down the toilet at those moment without knowing. Its called being swept away by the flood of sensual pleasures(an5.55)

Now, at that time a mother and son had both entered the rainy season residence at Sāvatthī,
Tena kho pana samayena sāvatthiyaṁ ubho mātāputtā vassāvāsaṁ upagamiṁsu—
as a monk and a nun.
bhikkhu ca bhikkhunī ca.
They wanted to see each other often.
Te aññamaññassa abhiṇhaṁ dassanakāmā ahesuṁ.
The mother wanted to see her son often,
Mātāpi puttassa abhiṇhaṁ dassanakāmā ahosi;
and the son his mother.
puttopi mātaraṁ abhiṇhaṁ dassanakāmo ahosi.
Seeing each other often, they became close.
Tesaṁ abhiṇhaṁ dassanā saṁsaggo ahosi.
Being so close, they became intimate.
Saṁsagge sati vissāso ahosi.
And being intimate, lust overcame them.
Vissāse sati otāro ahosi.
With their minds swamped by lust, without resigning the training and declaring their inability to continue, they had sex.
Te otiṇṇacittā sikkhaṁ apaccakkhāya dubbalyaṁ anāvikatvā methunaṁ dhammaṁ paṭiseviṁsu.

In order to not get swept away, you got to comprehend(jānāti) the sensual pleasures. I gather ones method should align with the meaning of jānāti.

As a side note this Sutta gives quite clear answer what sensual stimulation(kāmaguṇā) is,

These five kinds of sensual stimulation
Pañca kāmaguṇā ete,
are apparent in a woman’s body:
itthirūpasmiṁ dissare;
sights, sounds, tastes, smells,
Rūpā saddā rasā gandhā,
and touches so delightful.
phoṭṭhabbā ca manoramā.

[auto]

Verses of the Senior Monks 5.1
Theragāthā
i quote only parts of it,

..
Some men were disgusted,
Yañhi eke jigucchanti,
seeing her dead and rotten;
mataṁ disvāna pāpakaṁ;
but sexual desire arose in me,
Kāmarāgo pāturahu,
I was as if blind to her oozing body.
andhova savatī ahuṁ.

he left that place to a discreet place, mindful and aware.. read from a link

..
Then the realization
Tato me manasīkāro,
came upon me—
yoniso udapajjatha;
the danger became clear,
Ādīnavo pāturahu,
and I was firmly disillusioned.
nibbidā samatiṭṭhatha.

the term ādīnavo,

If the world had no drawback, sentient beings wouldn’t grow disillusioned with it.
No cedaṁ, bhikkhave, loke ādīnavo abhavissa, nayidaṁ sattā loke nibbindeyyuṁ.
But since the world has a drawback, sentient beings do grow disillusioned with it.
Yasmā ca kho, bhikkhave, atthi loke ādīnavo, tasmā sattā loke nibbindanti.

The drawback(ādīnavo) is what comes after sexual desire have arisen. The person goes to the secluded place and at that place is where the realization(yoniso manasikara) occurs: world loses its appeal and one grows disillusioned with it.
Its an argument against those who think they can develop mind without vipaka kamma arising, a'la just thinking that the copulation is time consuming.

[StrivingforMonkhood]

You can call AVERSION, Disgust, distaste, horror, loathing, nausea, repugnance, repulsion, revulsion, and what ever you wanted to. I will do whatever it takes to get out of sexual lust... It is a battle with my own lust and addiction, and in the end I may have some rest from chasing after sex, and I was lucky enough not to have AIDS, Gonorrhea, or Syphilis.

Maybe I can rest easy in my old age without sexual desire....

Jons

Exactly! I see your point. The human body - male or female - is not beautiful if you're not looking at it superficially.

We all stink and rot when we die. The Zen Buddhists really talk about this in a graphic way lol.

Sexual desire can lead to horrible suffering....just like gambling, materialism, etc.

I want you to be truly happy, Jons. May you be liberated from all suffering.

[auto]

..

You guys remind me of what alcoholics are thinking when they have completed the circle. One got angry with me because i used the word alcohol in front of him. Heads up, he still drinks, loathes it and doesn't understand much at all how mind works.
When you develop the mind, it comes more easily subject to sensual desire, which by the way is the reason you can get ahead of time(kāla)/death.

[Alino]

Its an argument against those who think they can develop mind without vipaka kamma arising, a'la just thinking that the copulation is time consuming.

Thank you Auto for your meaningful reflections

Indeed you can develop dispassion whyle directly confronted to vipaka, seeing its dukkha by not moving along with it.
We can call it - Eliminating yet arisen unwholesome states.

But there is also aspect of - Preventing from arising not yet arisen unwholesome states.

If an unwholesome state arose as vipaka, it meants that there was contact, feeling and craving, but if we train our perception in the way that craving can not arise, so there will be no vipaka to deal with.

I dont want to contradict you, nor iam saying that i fully developed Right Effort myself, but just to complete your good reply, as my limited understanding let me do so.

[auto]

thanks for the kind words, but i still not see how you would do progress with the way you propose.

But there is also aspect of - Preventing from arising not yet arisen unwholesome states.

It requires vipaka kamma to be experienced in a pleasing life-form(what doesn't intent to hurt oneself nor others), what then causes the unwholesome qualities to decline and wholesome qualities to grow.

If an unwholesome state arose as vipaka, it meants that there was contact, feeling and craving, but if we train our perception in the way that craving can not arise, so there will be no vipaka to deal with.

When unwholesome state arises(grows), it is in a painful life-form(intent to hurt..) where the qualities aren't going to ripen in freedom(awakening). Unwholesome in general means that the kamma is not known at the time of making of the kamma: where the qualities are transmitted to the receiver who will in the future experience the kamma vipaka.

besides that, supposedly buddha's bad back is because in one of the former life he broke someone's back. The very least buddha should know how to stop vipaka kamma from arising.. but if i remember correctly then that's not the case.

[Alino]

thanks for the kind words, but i still not see how you would do progress with the way you propose.

Reflections on drawbacks of sensuality is what was thaught by Lord Buddha and what works for me. Of coarse iam not Anagami so i dont pretend to say that this method have uprooting qualities, as i not seen it for myself.

As for the rest iam not sure to understand what you said. I have difficulty to understant complex language

[jc1990]

are you a lay person? if so, you should get married, but don't masturbate. sila 5 permits you to have sex with partner. if you keep sila 5 and get married, you will have a happy life here and in later life. But if you masturbate, you will go to hell.

[auto]

Reflections on drawbacks of sensuality is what was thaught by Lord Buddha and what works for me. Of coarse iam not Anagami so i dont pretend to say that this method have uprooting qualities, as i not seen it for myself.

the drawback of sensuality is that you suffer from cold, heat, die in hunger.. and the sensuality is why you wouldn't suffer and die, warming yourself near fireplace.. drinking water etc.

"And what is the drawback of sensuality? There is the case where, on account of the occupation by which a clansman makes a living — whether checking or accounting or calculating or plowing or trading or cattle tending or archery or as a king's man, or whatever the occupation may be — he faces cold; he faces heat; being harassed by mosquitoes, flies, wind, sun, and creeping things; dying from hunger and thirst.

"Now this drawback in the case of sensuality, this mass of stress visible here and now, has sensuality for its reason, sensuality for its source, sensuality for its cause, the reason being simply sensuality.

"If the clansman gains no wealth while thus working and striving and making effort, he sorrows, grieves and laments, beats his breast, becomes distraught: 'My work is in vain, my efforts are fruitless!' Now this drawback too in the case of sensuality, this mass of stress visible here and now, has sensuality for its reason...

drawback of form is that it loses its allure when drawbacks have appeared but if drawbacks haven't come yet, it has allure. You would not want to drink smelly and yellow water? there is no need to reflect, it is self explanatory.

"Again, one might see that very same woman sick, in pain, & seriously ill, lying soiled with her own urine & excrement, lifted up by others, laid down by others. What do you think: Has her earlier beauty & charm vanished, and the drawback appeared?"

"Yes, lord."

"This too, monks, is the drawback of forms.

I believe thinking that the water is disgusting because it makes you wet, won't save you from dying to thirst. Thinking sex is money consuming, how on earth it would make you lose suffering what the absence of sex is producing?

So might want to explain how you can survive cold by reflecting on how disgusting is hot weather what makes you sweat?
and you seem thinking about the sensual pleasure in case of fetter model what you try to get rid of by the method you have derived from the meaning of drawback. By which i assume you have quite idealistic view mostly because of too little information.

[Alino]

You are comparing essential to non-essential.
Water is essential, having sex is non-essential.

Also sex have many drawbacks and dangers in it, from suffering from the pressure of desire to the siffering of death and direct violence because of it. But each of us, if he wants, can find his own drawbacks of it.
Why would he do that?
Because wanting sex and the very act of sex is suffering.

I don't see any problem...

[auto]

You are comparing essential to non-essential.
Water is essential, having sex is non-essential.

Also sex have many drawbacks and dangers in it, from suffering from the pressure of desire to the siffering of death and direct violence because of it. But each of us, if he wants, can find his own drawbacks of it.
Why would he do that?
Because wanting sex and the very act of sex is suffering.

I don't see any problem...

I am talking about the suffering what occurs when away from sensuality. Copulation gets rid of that suffering. The issues you have about sexuality, that it is yucky, is besides the point, copulation still takes away the suffering or works as its biologically intended.

And how does desire not come up for things that stimulate desire and greed in the past, future, or present?
You understand the future result of things that stimulate desire and greed in the past, future, or present.
When you know this, you grow disillusioned,

Sutta says something about understanding the future result(vipaka) of things.

[Alino]

I am talking about the suffering what occurs when away from sensuality. Copulation gets rid of that suffering. The issues you have about sexuality, that it is yucky, is besides the point, copulation still takes away the suffering or works as its biologically intended.

As i understand, the Dhamma is not about smoking while you suffer without smoke, the Dhamma is about being free from desire to smoke.

Scratching the itching wound will only perpetuates the wound.

Sorry but i will stop our discussion here

[auto]

I am talking about the suffering what occurs when away from sensuality. Copulation gets rid of that suffering. The issues you have about sexuality, that it is yucky, is besides the point, copulation still takes away the suffering or works as its biologically intended.

As i understand, the Dhamma is not about smoking while you suffer without smoke, the Dhamma is about being free from desire to smoke.

Scratching the itching wound will only perpetuates the wound.

Sorry but i will stop our discussion here

..you just lack information about things what are there. No wonder you can believe in something cheesy as sex making one dirty will remove the desire for it, for good.

When touched by painful feeling they look forward to enjoying sensual pleasures.
Why is that?
Because an uneducated ordinary person doesn’t understand any escape from painful feeling apart from sensual pleasures.

[sunnat]

“Just if, Māgandiyo, when a leper, whose limbs have become covered with ulcers, rotten, worm-eaten, are scratched by the nails and sore, would bake them at a pit full of burning coals with scraps of skin tearing down from the body. And his friends and comrades, relatives and cousins ​​ordered him a knowledgeable doctor, and this knowledgeable doctor would give him a cure, and he used this remedy and would be freed from leprosy and was cured, felt good, independent, and could go where he wanted. And two strong men grabbed him under the arms and dragged him toward the glowing coal pit. What do you think Māgandiyo? Would not this man pull back his body in every possible way?”

“Certainly, oh Gotama!”

“And why is that?”

“That fire, oh Gotama, is so painful to endure and even terribly scorching and terribly injuring.”

“What do you think Māgandiyo: is only now the fire painful to endure and terribly scorching and dreadfully injuring, or was it earlier too painful to endure and terribly scorching and dreadfully injuring?”

“Now, O Gautama, the fire is painful to endure and terribly scorching and dreadfully injuring and even before the fire was painful to endure and terribly scorching and dreadfully injuring. But that leper, oh Gotama, whose limbs were full of sores, had become rotten, worm-eaten, were scratched by the nails with shreds of skin tearing down from his body, he had become confused and had lost his mind, and that his how he endured the painful fire believing: ‘That feels good’ ”

“Just in the same way, however, Māgandiyo, were also the desires of the past painful to bear and terribly scorching and frightfully injuring, and also the desires of the future will be painful to endure and terribly scorching and frightfully injuring, and even the desires of today are painful to bear and terribly scorching and frightfully injuring. But these beings, Māgandiyo, yielded to the desire of desiring thirst, inflamed by desiring fever, have become confused in their senses, lost their mind, and while they painfully endure the desires they believe: ‘This feels good’.

[SteRo]

Also sex have many drawbacks and dangers in it, from suffering from the pressure of desire to the siffering of death and direct violence because of it.

The same can be said about 'not allowing oneself to have sex' or 'not having the consensual opportunity to have sex'.