metta and hatred

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Tennok
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metta and hatred

Post by Tennok »

I used to do metta meditation for years, starting from myself and going through the beloved ones, friends, neighbours, etc. At the end I would send my metta to Vladymyr Putin, becouse in my oppinion his actions, such as blowing residential houses in Moscov in order to invade Chechenya, murdering journalists, bombing civilians in Aleppo etc., were the worst thing I could think about. Pure, cynical, machavelic Evil. So I was sending my metta to him. It didn't work :thinking: .

And now, to go to the merit of my post. I ve just learned that it's so different to pracitce metta from the distance, than when the war and hatred is on our doorstep. I live in Poland now, I know Ukraine, went there for holidays. My ancestors and family members lived there. Some of them fought aganst invading Russians, some were killed by them in the past. Or were imprisoned, or sent to Syberia, like people from Mariupol today. In XX Century, Russians killed more than a million of Poles, Bucha style. They almost raped my grandma when she was a child. So the energy of fear and hatred is so strong now. All nations in this region had their share of violence, cruelty and atrocities, but only Russian are still proud of it, and eager to continue.

And I start to hate them, even I know it's wrong. I feel emphaty and compassion, but also hatred. I start to perceive Russians as orcs, no - humans. Pests. I got poisoned. I want to burn all the Russian books I used to love so much; Dostoyevski, Tolstoi, Bulchakov, Pielevin. I know that Dhamma teaches as that dukkha and unwholesome actions are just part of the world, but now my soul cries to do something real, instead of just meditating. I wish I could shoot an orc, instead of just collecting money for those who fight. But Dhamma teaches me to stay away from that, keep emotional distance.

And this is the paradox od Dhamma. It's practucioners wish to remain peaceful, but if the Buddhist country gets invaded, like India in IX Century, or Tibet, or overrun by hunta, like Myanmar nowadays, how can the Dhamma floursh, and our pracitce?

If Russians invade my country - again - and commit another Bucha massacre in my neighbourhood, will Dhamma help me in dealing with that?

How do we fight against Evil as Buddhists? Not the internal, kilesa /asava stuff, but bunch of fellow humans, murderers, looters and rapists, lead by insane dictator?
Last edited by Tennok on Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by Ceisiwr »

Tennok wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:09 pm
It might be worth remembering that not all Russians approve of the war or like Putin.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Tennok
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by Tennok »

Ceisiwr wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:17 pm
Tennok wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:09 pm
It might be worth remembering that not all Russians approve of the war or like Putin.
I guess so. But according to indpenedent survey - not controled by Kremlin - support to Puttin sky rocketed since the war began. And the soldiers who rape and loot call their wifes, and disscuss with them what laundy mashine and fridge shall they send to their little town. The accpetance of tyrannical evil among "average Russians" in unbelievable. Most of them still adore Stalin, for example.

Imagine that your English neighbours still brag about invading Wales, killing prince Llevelyn nad forbiding Welsh children to speak Welsh at school. Russians cheerish at this imperial nonsence and delight in it, except of few folks in larger cities.

Russian ministry have just said that liquidation of Ukrainians as nation - aka the masacres, called "zaczystka" - is the official policy od their state - which majority of Russians suport.

My country is next in the que.
sunnat
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by sunnat »

This hatred is craving. Wanting things to be in a particular way. Craving proliferates when indulged in. There should be no wonder of why metta is difficult.

Hatred breeds hatred. The Ukrainian fascists who supported Hitler hated Russians like Hitler did. Many tens of millions died fighting Hitler's armies.

When the right wing Ukrainians took over they attacked Russians who protected themselves by forming independent republics. Since then they have continued to attack the Russians. It is no wonder the Russians fight back. Of course they support putin In a world that is trained to hate them. Hatred breeds hatred. Loss and victory creates more hatred.

Humanity have behaved like this for a long time. I remember when the US bombed north Cambodia and then Nixon had students killed in Ohio when protesting. Hatred goes round and round. Lord Buddha taught only love defeats hatred. When it's personal that is how it is.
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Sam Vara
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by Sam Vara »

Moderator note:

This is not a forum for political discussion, or for political discussion given a Buddhist gloss. Best to stay away from the topic of the current invasion of Ukraine if it is going to include statements about the rightness or wrongness of either side.
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Tennok
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by Tennok »

I just thought some fellow practicioners can share some thoughts about diffculties of practicing metta, and sticking to Dhamma, in this new, grim reality. Sorry if it looks like a polital statement, ther is enought of this stuff everywhere.

I mean it's new for Europe, I know there are sad conflicts all over the world.
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SDC
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by SDC »

Tennok wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:50 pm I just thought some fellow practicioners can share some thoughts about diffculties of practicing metta, and sticking to Dhamma, in this new, grim reality. Sorry if it looks like a polital statement, ther is enought of this stuff everywhere.

I mean it's new for Europe, I know there are sad conflicts all over the world.
Metta is about protecting your own mind from ill-will/hatred through cultivating the quality of non ill-will/friendliness/kindness. That no matter what unwanted unpleasant feeling arises, it is regarded without aversion. You don’t have to have affection, admiration, appreciation, respect for other people who do terrible things - all you have to do is protect your mind from resorting to hatred as a result of what is unwanted from others. Doing so will keep the perspective from narrowing and caving in to craving.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
santa100
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by santa100 »

Tennok wrote:I just thought some fellow practicioners can share some thoughts about diffculties of practicing metta, and sticking to Dhamma, in this new, grim reality. Sorry if it looks like a polital statement, ther is enought of this stuff everywhere.

I mean it's new for Europe, I know there are sad conflicts all over the world.
Ultimately, there's nothing new here. Humans are still savage animals with big brains and will continue to commit extreme acts of evil until the end of time simply because they can. One can practice Metta, abstain from hatred, AND stop evil acts at the same time.
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Tennok
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by Tennok »

Thanx SDC, Santa 100. I ve needed that sort of comments. So, vipassana and the right perspective. :anjali:

Still, for me, the current 'World War III" mood is even more draining than the covid mood, becouse it's not the abstract virus causing the suffering, but some real persons. And that makes the aversion personal, it becomes a narrative, a story grounded in history and the past. Hard to be mindfull of those emotions and thoughts as a single phenomenon, it all builds up quickly.

I don't remember the title of the sutta, but there is one, where Buddha tells monks to refrain form violence and ill will, even when bandits will beat'em and cut them to pieces.

This sutta may come handy soon, I'm afraid.
santa100
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by santa100 »

Tennok wrote:I don't remember the title of the sutta, but there is one, where Buddha tells monks to refrain form violence and ill will, even when bandits will beat'em and cut them to pieces.
From a similar thread..
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Coëmgenu
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by Coëmgenu »

Tennok wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:16 pmStill, for me, the current 'World War III" mood is even more draining than the covid mood, becouse it's not the abstract virus causing the suffering, but some real persons.
Vikings or viruses...
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Rambutan
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by Rambutan »

This is when metta is most needed.
You don’t have to like someone in order to have compassion for them. For example, in Tibetan Buddhism is practiced generating compassion for one’s enemies.
Very often what we “experience” as anger or hate is actually a disheartened wish that the other person wasn’t so messed up, and if they had peace of mind, they could not commit such atrocities. That wish, in fact, is metta.
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by Alino »

As said Ajahn Martin : It's intresting, do you think so? When USA invides Irak or Afganistan we hear nothing... Do you heard something? I dont...

Also its intresting that while Saudi Arabia destroys Yemen - Western world say nothing at all, they even sell more arms to the Saudi Arabia, the same with Palestine... When NATO destroyed Yougoslavia nobody in Europe screamed and cryed about this...

It seems that some wars are more ligimate then others depending on who is the aggressor.

Just to remember that USA have about 50% of the world's military investment (about 70% if we take NATO, i can mistake about exact numbers but is somethink like that) and spend the most of its recent history in wars, destroyed many countries, but it's okay... So who must be affraid?

More seriously, if you want to stop hate in your mind stop feed it with news. By stopping watching news you will realise that your real life is much more peaceful and problemless. News, music, movies, games are made to create emotions in those who are exposed to them. Their main purpose is emotional manipulation, they create thoughts and emotions that was absent beforehand.

So the wise policy here is to stop feeding your suffering. But if you enjoy and indulge in suffering, worry, anxiety about geopolitical situation the world - please don't spead it on the public, especially on the Dhamma Forum.
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
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SDC
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by SDC »

Tennok wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:16 pm it becomes a narrative, a story grounded in history and the past. Hard to be mindfull of those emotions and thoughts as a single phenomenon, it all builds up quickly.
Isn’t that the very description of suffering? A single framework within which suffering amasses?
SN 56.11 wrote:Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.
So wouldn’t it make sense to leave aside the narrative and history and look in the other direction? At the liability?
MN 29 wrote:‘I am a victim of birth, ageing, and death, of sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair; I am a victim of suffering, a prey to suffering. Surely an ending of this whole mass of suffering can be known.’
Think about it like this, if you never turn to towards that liability, there will always be an endless supply of incidents of suffering, an extent of which can never be tended to, ever. I know that you know this already, but if that attitude is geared at the circumstances of suffering, the liability will never emerge as the true issue. From that point of view, suffering will come from as many directions at a given time and that attitude of metta will be under constant sabotage. But if things can be brought together to a certain extent within that acceptance of that liability, then the attitude of metta will be of use to combat just that one thing: ill-will/hatred.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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mikenz66
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Re: metta and hatred

Post by mikenz66 »

SDC wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:55 am So wouldn’t it make sense to leave aside the narrative and history and look in the other direction? At the liability?
Yes, I think it's worth reflecting on this sutta about the saṁvega of the Buddha-to-be:
Snp4.15 Taking Up Arms

Peril stems from those who take up arms—
just look at people in conflict!
I shall extol how I came to be
stirred with a sense of urgency.

I saw this population flounder,
like a fish in a little puddle.
Seeing them fight each other,
fear came upon me.

The world around was hollow,
all directions were in turmoil.
Wanting a home for myself,
I saw nowhere unsettled.

But even in their settlement they fight—
seeing that, I grew uneasy.
Then I saw a dart there,
so hard to see, stuck in the heart.

When struck by that dart,
you run about in all directions.
But when that same dart has been plucked out,
you neither run about nor sink down.
...
https://suttacentral.net/snp4.15/en/sujato
:heart:
Mike
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