Mara's bribes

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Bundokji
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Mara's bribes

Post by Bundokji »

Friends,

I encountered more than once reports that for meditators who try to go beyond the sensual realm, Mara tries to bribe them out of the fear of losing a customer. Usually, this is associated with having an object of desire appearing at one's "door steps".

The above does not have to be confined to the lenses of Buddhist cosmology. It is noticeable that the more we renounce the world, the more it becomes rewarding. I personally interpret it as strange coincidences.

How does the above work? have any members here encountered Mara's bribes? It is also said that he can get violent. Any experiences that can be shared in that regard?

Thank you :anjali:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Mara's bribes

Post by JamesTheGiant »

On retreats and stays at monasteries, usually there's very gorgeous and single Buddhist women there too, whom I inevitably fall in love with. I suspect it's all been arranged by Mara to tempt us both! :rolleye:
form
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Re: Mara's bribes

Post by form »

A lot of talks about Mara. But has anyone encounter the manifestation of him as a physical being?
Bundokji
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Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Bundokji »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:16 am On retreats and stays at monasteries, usually there's very gorgeous and single Buddhist women there too, whom I inevitably fall in love with. I suspect it's all been arranged by Mara to tempt us both! :rolleye:
This reminded me of Ajahn Chah who was staying at a monastery and then a regular female visitor, a divorced woman as i remember, started sending her son to talk to the venerable. It is said that the venerable left the monastery without looking back.

But Mara's bribes sounds to be more radical than that. While Mara sending his daughters is quite symbolic, in the heavenly realms below where Mara resides there are Devas capable of creation through the power of their imaginations. Maybe within the echelons in kamma loka, higher realms seems to coincide with mind over matter. Maybe such abilities or psychic powers can seduce meditators to use them for worldly pursuits rather than liberation.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Sam Vara »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:16 am On retreats and stays at monasteries, usually there's very gorgeous and single Buddhist women there too, whom I inevitably fall in love with. I suspect it's all been arranged by Mara to tempt us both! :rolleye:
This happened to me many years ago, and towards the end of the retreat, our eyes often met. We both...knew. We were waiting excitedly for the end when noble silence would end, we could chat, and then...maybe....

When we did finally get to chat, I found her to have a truly appalling personality: bigoted, dull, and full of stale clichés. I don't suppose she found me any more alluring. Had we exchanged phone numbers, I would have thrown my phone away and got a new number.

That's one of the retreats where I learnt a lot of Dhamma.
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Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Bundokji »

form wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:41 am A lot of talks about Mara. But has anyone encounter the manifestation of him as a physical being?
I personally have not, but i think the personification of deities serves as an antidote to the dogmas of Abrahamic religions.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Re: Mara's bribes

Post by befriend »

When I was meditating many years ago my mind started to get clearer and more relaxed I could sense a deeper state to my mindfulness was about to happen and then an image of a naked woman came into my mind to distract my meditation. I also believe there is some kind of angry yakkha, Mara or demoness living in my back. I can feel it's darkness in the body. it makes me physically shake my head side to side as if saying no get out positive thought, this happens sometimes when I think positive thoughts.
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Re: Mara's bribes

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befriend wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:43 pm When I was meditating many years ago my mind started to get clearer and more relaxed I could sense a deeper state to my mindfulness was about to happen and then an image of a naked woman came into my mind to distract my meditation. I also believe there is some kind of angry yakkha, Mara or demoness living in my back. I can feel it's darkness in the body. it makes me physically shake my head side to side as if saying no get out positive thought, this happens sometimes when I think positive thoughts.
My friend has similar experience.
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Rambutan
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Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Rambutan »

form wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:41 am A lot of talks about Mara. But has anyone encounter the manifestation of him as a physical being?
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Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Alino »

As one of my Ajahns said : when Mara see that a practitioner becomes serious about renounciation he sends to him a perfect job, perfect woman, perfect friends...

In some way Mara is similar to the well-intentionned but over-protective mother who cincerely tryes to protect his child from going outside and gives him all toys he wants only to prevent him to go out... If toys dont help she tell him frightening stories...
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

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Re: Mara's bribes

Post by auto »

befriend wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:43 pm When I was meditating many years ago my mind started to get clearer and more relaxed I could sense a deeper state to my mindfulness was about to happen and then an image of a naked woman came into my mind to distract my meditation. I also believe there is some kind of angry yakkha, Mara or demoness living in my back. I can feel it's darkness in the body. it makes me physically shake my head side to side as if saying no get out positive thought, this happens sometimes when I think positive thoughts.
Seeing things what affect body. Dependent on the content, relevant organ or body part is affected. So far that can be verified by anyone.
Affect is strong and causes physical manifestation, but when mind or body gets stronger the affect won't manifest. Instead there is a sign what can be mentally apprehended, which then give arise to another sign what is bodily affect and that sign can be ceased and what left is the real thing.

But that above can't be done if the sign isn't acquired prior. And for majority it is physical requirement, because its the real thing. I have followed debates if the things you do in games are real or not, there are people who tell they are not. Then these people need physical activities real. Simple deductions, take it with salt.
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Re: Mara's bribes

Post by auto »

Bundokji wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:14 am Friends,

I encountered more than once reports that for meditators who try to go beyond the sensual realm, Mara tries to bribe them out of the fear of losing a customer. Usually, this is associated with having an object of desire appearing at one's "door steps".
when you recognize the mara, it goes away.
https://accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn05/sn05.010.bodh.html?msclkid=8f693421b9c111ecb8064a6c85cb3400 wrote:Then Mara the Evil One, realizing, "The bhikkhuni Vajira knows me," sad and disappointed, disappeared right there.
Perhaps you have to reply in a way that the mara would understand that you recognized him:
wrote:Then the bhikkhuni Vajira, having understood, "This is Mara the Evil One," replied to him in verses:
its like a puzzle. Could just refer to how one would attain concentration after Mara is recognized and defeated, going above the Mara's territory this way.
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Re: Mara's bribes

Post by form »

I heard before a few Chinese Buddhists telling me after they accepted the three refuges, for a few months they have some scary encounters relating to Mara and his demons. I personally do not believe these stories.
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Re: Mara's bribes

Post by santa100 »

form wrote:I heard before a few Chinese Buddhists telling me after they accepted the three refuges, for a few months they have some scary encounters relating to Mara and his demons. I personally do not believe these stories.
As part of Mara's playbook, he usually sends the carrot first before giving the stick. Just like he first sent his three beautiful daughters to the Buddha before sending his army. That's why most of the time, a bhikkhu returns to lay life not due to some terrible hardships but because of some young voluptuous woman.
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Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Coëmgenu »

Bundokji wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:14 am Friends,

I encountered more than once reports that for meditators who try to go beyond the sensual realm, Mara tries to bribe them out of the fear of losing a customer. Usually, this is associated with having an object of desire appearing at one's "door steps".
Four out of five Māras are metaphorical. The one you seem to be singling out is the "Māra of afflictions," particularly of the affliction of greed. Certainly Māra "personally" might trouble some great contenplatives, but most often the fall comes from within, from one of the metaphorical Māras, such as the Māra of the Khandhas or Kilesas. I don't know if the "five Māras" is sūtric, commentarial, or abhidharmic. I don't think I've seen them outlined as such in a sutta or āgamasūtra, but my memory might be failing me. Māra metaphorically sends his daughters and armies after all Buddhists as a "Māra of the Conditioned."
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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