Mara's bribes

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
User avatar
Radix
Posts: 1274
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:42 pm

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Radix »

Pondera wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:32 amWhy would I delight in that?
Perversion. Masochism. They're very common.
Last edited by Radix on Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
Glenn Wallis
User avatar
Radix
Posts: 1274
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:42 pm

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Radix »

Sam Vara wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:03 pm
It's an irrelevant distinction.
It's not irrelevant to me, which is why I asked, nor apparently to Pondera, which is why he answered.
Radix wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:53 pmIt's an irrelevant distinction.

Schizophrenic or not, one has things to do and places to be. The real problem is a faulty moral compass.

Try taking some significant amount of time off the internet. It does wonders for one's reading comprehension and ability to pay attention.
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
Glenn Wallis
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Sam Vara »

Radix wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:35 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:03 pm
It's an irrelevant distinction.
It's not irrelevant to me, which is why I asked, nor apparently to Pondera, which is why he answered.
Radix wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:53 pmIt's an irrelevant distinction.

Schizophrenic or not, one has things to do and places to be. The real problem is a faulty moral compass.

Try taking some significant amount of time off the internet. It does wonders for one's reading comprehension and ability to pay attention.
Sorry, I don't understand any of this. I think something is relevant; so, apparently, does Pondera. What has that to do with a "faulty moral compass", whatever that is?
User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 3072
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Pondera »

Radix wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:31 pm
Pondera wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:32 amWhy would I delight in that?
Perversion. Masochism. They're very common.
Insensitive and ignorant. Horrible feedback for anyone suffering from this illness. To tell them it’s “their fault”. Grow up, kid.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
User avatar
Radix
Posts: 1274
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:42 pm

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Radix »

Sam Vara wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:15 pmSorry, I don't understand any of this. I think something is relevant; so, apparently, does Pondera. What has that to do with a "faulty moral compass", whatever that is?
If you have two "voices in your head", one telling you to kill yourself and another to clean your bathroom, is trying to figure out which one is the real one the best course of action? Esp. when the chances are that the voice telling you to kill yourself is a memory of something you have actually been told by someone (so in that sense, it's real), while it's entirely possible that you've never been told by anyone to clean your bathroom (so that one seems less real than the other one)?
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
Glenn Wallis
User avatar
Radix
Posts: 1274
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:42 pm

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Radix »

Pondera wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:44 pmInsensitive and ignorant. Horrible feedback for anyone suffering from this illness. To tell them it’s “their fault”. Grow up, kid.
Because this is _not_ a discussion forum, riiight. It just isn't.
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
Glenn Wallis
User avatar
Radix
Posts: 1274
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:42 pm

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Radix »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:27 am “Those who argue for their limitations get to keep them.”
Yay superficiality! Primitivism is the new classy.
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
Glenn Wallis
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Sam Vara »

Radix wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:37 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:15 pmSorry, I don't understand any of this. I think something is relevant; so, apparently, does Pondera. What has that to do with a "faulty moral compass", whatever that is?
If you have two "voices in your head", one telling you to kill yourself and another to clean your bathroom, is trying to figure out which one is the real one the best course of action? Esp. when the chances are that the voice telling you to kill yourself is a memory of something you have actually been told by someone (so in that sense, it's real), while it's entirely possible that you've never been told by anyone to clean your bathroom (so that one seems less real than the other one)?
But if you don't have two voices in your head, one telling you to kill yourself and another to clean your bathroom, then trying to answer my original question might be a good idea. As I said, both Pondera and I think that the issue is relevant, and if you don't think it is, you have the option of ignoring it.
User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 3072
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Pondera »

Radix wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:38 pm
Pondera wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:44 pmInsensitive and ignorant. Horrible feedback for anyone suffering from this illness. To tell them it’s “their fault”. Grow up, kid.
Because this is _not_ a discussion forum, riiight. It just isn't.
What is that? “Sarcasm”?

Yeah. It’s a discussion forum. Feel free to post whatever insensitive and ignorant comments you please.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by cappuccino »

Pondera wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:42 pm Feel free to post whatever
I think you’re talking to yourself
User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 3072
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Pondera »

cappuccino wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:28 am
Pondera wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:42 pm Feel free to post whatever
I think you’re talking to yourself
Wow! So deep!
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by cappuccino »

Pondera wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:52 am Wow! So deep!
Indeed


People are always talking to themselves


So what
Dhammapardon
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon May 09, 2022 12:11 am

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Dhammapardon »

Pondera wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:20 am What actually works (as an example) is diaphragmatic breathing and visualization techniques.

It’s not possible to simply *ignore* this voice. It makes its presence very *undeniable* and hard to ignore.

If it was as easy for a schizophrenic to simply “not listen” then it wouldn’t be the number one cause of suicides in people with mental illnesses.

And, take it from the horse’s mouth - there’s nothing “delightful” about hearing a pernicious and evil voice all day long. People with this illness do not “delight” in it.

Diaphragmatic breathing, folks. Straight forward “anapanasati”. Nothing “counterintuitive” about it.

Karuna - :anjali:
Do you try dispassion and equanimity toward it?
Some people say its voices and some people say chemical imbalance but either way you hear it or you think it or however, it is anatta, anicca, dukkha. To be seen clearly, grown dispassionate toward, and not clung to.

Maybe similar to these suttas? There may be better suttas to exemplify..
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.60/en/sujato?layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: And what is the principle for the complete understanding of all grasping?

Ear consciousness arises dependent on the ear and sounds. The meeting of the three is contact. Contact is a condition for feeling...

Seeing this, a learned noble disciple grows disillusioned with the ear, sounds, ear consciousness, ear contact, and feeling...

Mind consciousness arises dependent on the mind and thoughts. The meeting of the three is contact. Contact is a condition for feeling...

Seeing this, a learned noble disciple grows disillusioned with the mind, thoughts, mind consciousness, mind contact, and feeling...
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.65/en/sujato?layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: “Sir, they speak of this thing called ‘Māra’. How do we define Māra or what is known as Māra?”

Where there is the ear, sounds, ear consciousness, and phenomena to be known by ear consciousness, there is Māra or what is known as Māra...

Where there is no ear, no sounds, no ear consciousness, and no phenomena to be known by ear consciousness, there is no Māra or what is known as Māra...

Where there is the mind, thoughts, mind consciousness, and phenomena to be known by mind consciousness, there is Māra or what is known as Māra...

Where there is no mind, no thoughts, no mind consciousness, and no phenomena to be known by mind consciousness, there is no Māra or what is known as Māra.”
Hope its helpful
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
User avatar
Radix
Posts: 1274
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:42 pm

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Radix »

Pondera wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:42 pmWhat is that? “Sarcasm”?
Yeah. It’s a discussion forum. Feel free to post whatever insensitive and ignorant comments you please.
How can you hope to discuss anything in any depth if you insist on keeping everything on the level of a watercooler conversation?
Clearly, for you, this is not a discussion forum, and you are limiting discussion.
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
Glenn Wallis
User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 3072
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Mara's bribes

Post by Pondera »

Radix wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:25 pm
Pondera wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:42 pmWhat is that? “Sarcasm”?
Yeah. It’s a discussion forum. Feel free to post whatever insensitive and ignorant comments you please.
How can you hope to discuss anything in any depth if you insist on keeping everything on the level of a watercooler conversation?
Clearly, for you, this is not a discussion forum, and you are limiting discussion.
You’re suggesting that the *cure* for a person suffering from a mental illness (which is out of their control) is a letting go of a “perverse” or “masochistic” attachment to it. Go ahead and elaborate.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
Post Reply