Any restriction on bhikkhu going sight seeing tour

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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asahi
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Any restriction on bhikkhu going sight seeing tour

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Is there any precept not allowing bhikkhu travelling for sightseeing which is a kind of enjoyment and not for practice or spreading dhamma purposes ?


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santa100
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Re: Any restriction on bhikkhu going sight seeing tour

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asahi wrote:Is there any precept not allowing bhikkhu travelling for sightseeing which is a kind of enjoyment and not for practice or spreading dhamma purposes ?
Depends on the real purpose behind that sightseeing tour. There's a difference between a pilgrimage to Bodhgaya to commemorate a great Teacher and to get some inspiration for more diligent practice; versus some tour in some big busy famous cities in the world just for pleasure of the eye.
asahi
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Re: Any restriction on bhikkhu going sight seeing tour

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santa100 wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:00 am
asahi wrote:Is there any precept not allowing bhikkhu travelling for sightseeing which is a kind of enjoyment and not for practice or spreading dhamma purposes ?
Depends on the real purpose behind that sightseeing tour. There's a difference between a pilgrimage to Bodhgaya to commemorate a great Teacher and to get some inspiration for more diligent practice; versus some tour in some big busy famous cities in the world just for pleasure of the eye.
Yes , i mean like visiting Japan or some other country where besides visiting Temple , they also go touring the nature or sightseeing big city monuments . I guess no specific rules not allowing them to do these .
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santa100
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Re: Any restriction on bhikkhu going sight seeing tour

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asahi wrote:Yes , i mean like visiting Japan or some other country where besides visiting Temple , they also go touring the nature or sightseeing big city monuments . I guess no specific rules not allowing them to do these .
As the emphasis of the Vinaya is in the spirit and underlying intention of the rules, not just the letters, any serious bhikkhu would have to take great care to constantly be mindful of their true intent while visiting some places, cuz using my old example, 2 bhikkhus visiting the same spot at Bodhgaya would have 2 completely different intent: one is to commemorate the great Teacher while the other might just enjoy sheer pleasure of the eye. The "Thief of Scent" sutta puts it best
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Any restriction on bhikkhu going sight seeing tour

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asahi wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:47 am Is there any precept not allowing bhikkhu travelling for sightseeing which is a kind of enjoyment and not for practice or spreading dhamma purposes ?
No, there's no vinaya rule against sightseeing. There's also no rule against enjoyment.
The suttas talk about monks delighting in nature and beauty. I think it's in the Udana where a fully enlightened bhikkhu says this.

They can't go sightseeing at a military parade however, that's a specific rule.
asahi
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Re: Any restriction on bhikkhu going sight seeing tour

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JamesTheGiant wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:53 am
asahi wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:47 am Is there any precept not allowing bhikkhu travelling for sightseeing which is a kind of enjoyment and not for practice or spreading dhamma purposes ?
No, there's no vinaya rule against sightseeing. There's also no rule against enjoyment.
The suttas talk about monks delighting in nature and beauty. I think it's in the Udana where a fully enlightened bhikkhu says this.

They can't go sightseeing at a military parade however, that's a specific rule.
Well , i thought bhikkhu ordination do not cancel out the samanera rules , no ?! It seems samanera precepts does require monks not to indulge in or enjoy sense pleasure . :thinking:

And going to big city like Tokyo for sight seeing appear unnecessary isnt it , no ?!
:shrug:

Samanera precepts :

7. Refrain from singing, dancing, playing music or attending entertainment programs (performances).

8. Refrain from wearing perfume, cosmetics and garland (decorative accessories).

9. Refrain from sitting on high chairs and sleeping on luxurious, soft beds.
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santa100
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Re: Any restriction on bhikkhu going sight seeing tour

Post by santa100 »

asahi wrote:i thought bhikkhu ordination do not cancel out the samanera rules
Of course not, for if it did cancel out, that'd mean the senior guy wouldn't even be capable of observing the novice's basic rules!
While there's no explicit rule against sightseeing, the spirit of the rules certainly does not encourage one to seek "enjoyment", especially those for the sheer pleasure of the senses, as already pointed out by SN 9.14 and the more specifics below:
Sekhiyas #5: To behave decorously when sitting in inhabited areas.
Sekhiyas #6: To behave decorously when going to inhabited areas.
Sekhiyas #7: To keep the eyes always lowered when sitting in inhabited areas.
Sekhiyas #8: To keep the eyes always lowered when going to inhabited areas.
Pacittiyas #85: Not to enter a town or village after noon without having asked for approval from another bhikkhu.
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Johann
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Re: Any restriction on bhikkhu going sight seeing tour

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JamesTheGiant wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:53 am
asahi wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:47 am Is there any precept not allowing bhikkhu travelling for sightseeing which is a kind of enjoyment and not for practice or spreading dhamma purposes ?
No, there's no vinaya rule against sightseeing. There's also no rule against enjoyment.
The suttas talk about monks delighting in nature and beauty. I think it's in the Udana where a fully enlightened bhikkhu says this.

They can't go sightseeing at a military parade however, that's a specific rule.
Even looking around on alms or invited is already a fault, yet not to speak of making use of vehicles, for even sensual enjoyments purpose, good householder. Why? because neither of compassion, nor a security to not soon return to the lower life, because right of this.

It's not for the increase of faith seeing those living on alms walk around like those nourishing on sensual pleasures...
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Any restriction on bhikkhu going sight seeing tour

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Johann wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:09 pm It's not for the increase of faith seeing those living on alms walk around like those nourishing on sensual pleasures...
From the scriptures, a fully enlightened Kassapa enjoying the mountains and sights. Thag 18.1

Strewn with garlands of the musk-rose tree,
these regions are so delightful, so lovely,
echoing with the trumpeting of elephants:
these rocky crags delight me!

Glistening, they look like blue storm clouds,
with waters cool and streams so clear,
and covered all in ladybugs:
these rocky crags delight me!

Like the peak of a blue storm cloud,
or like a fine bungalow, lovely,
echoing with the trumpeting of elephants:
these rocky crags delight me!

The rain comes down on the lovely flats,
in the mountains frequented by hermits.
Echoing with the cries of peacocks,
these rocky crags delight me!

It’s enough for me,
who loves absorption and is resolute, to be mindful.
It’s enough for me,
a resolute monk who loves the goal.

It’s enough for me,
a resolute monk who loves comfort.
It’s enough for me,
resolute and poised, loving meditation.

Covered with flowers of flax,
like the sky covered with clouds,
full of flocks of many different birds,
these rocky crags delight me!

Empty of householders,
frequented by herds of deer,
full of flocks of many different birds,
these rocky crags delight me!

The water’s clear and the rocks are broad,
monkeys and deer are all around;
festooned with dewy moss,
these rocky crags delight me
https://daily.readingfaithfully.org/tha ... hakassapa/
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Johann
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Re: Any restriction on bhikkhu going sight seeing tour

Post by Johann »

Take aside the training of a Sekha... Not even an ordinary worker, still indebt, whould go after enjoyments before released of them.

Good householder certain never found association with those conductive for release but wandered along with the group of Six.

Greatings from right there, and Maha Kassapa, and he doesn't dwell there to enjoy sensuality, not to speak of attracting householders and their desires.
Last edited by Johann on Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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