I've listened to a talk by Ajahn Brahmali where he explains his perspective on the Buddha's path to awakening from EBT point of view.
My impression of the talks is that the path to buddhahood is not steady work over many many lifetimes but more of a single lifetime achievement of the right man in the right time and place. Is it the case from EBT perspective? That the buddha is not a being that had been on the path to awakening for eons.
It was pretty disheartening to hear
Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
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Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
It was 3 immeasurable eons for the purpose of gathering up the 10 Paramitas. And it is due to his generous teaching that we don't have to spend that kind of time.
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Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
It's the number I hear everyone saying. I don't remember any specific source in Pali. I'm doing good if I can make a commitment for a few days or weeks. I can't imagine committing to a Bodhisattva path and cultivating virtues for longer than the universe has been around. I think the problem is that so many people felt a need to make Buddha into a version of God.
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Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
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Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
The path that Buddha discovered and transmitted, is the ancient path, given in SN 12.65/SA 287.
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/sn12.65
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/sa287
Now, did He walk the ancient path in other lives, does not seem to be clearly stated in the Nikayas, afaik.
However, we might wonder if Paticcasamuppada was a new path added to the ancient path, or if the ancient noble ones had also discovered it, through the mandatory noble eightfold path?
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https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/sn12.65
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/sa287
Now, did He walk the ancient path in other lives, does not seem to be clearly stated in the Nikayas, afaik.
However, we might wonder if Paticcasamuppada was a new path added to the ancient path, or if the ancient noble ones had also discovered it, through the mandatory noble eightfold path?
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Last edited by ToVincent on Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
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Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
Greetings,
Metta,
Paul.
Yes.kenteramin wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:11 am My impression of the talks is that the path to buddhahood is not steady work over many many lifetimes but more of a single lifetime achievement of the right man in the right time and place. Is it the case from EBT perspective?
Turn that frown upside down. Shouldn't the viability of enlightenment and the power of the Dhamma to deliver enlightenment in this very life be cause for rejoicing and inspiration? Why would you want it to be more laborious?kenteramin wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:11 amThat the buddha is not a being that had been on the path to awakening for eons.
It was pretty disheartening to hear
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
If I need to get to the second floor I prefer stairs to a rope in a windowretrofuturist wrote: ↑Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:58 am
Turn that frown upside down. Shouldn't the viability of enlightenment and the power of the Dhamma to deliver enlightenment in this very life be cause for rejoicing and inspiration? Why would you want it to be more laborious?
Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
It is not the case from any perspective. There're tons of Sutta instances where the Buddha used the common stock phrase "before enlightenment, while I was still an unenlightened Bodhisatta". Had His path to Buddhahood been accomplished in a single lifetime, He'd have replaced the phrase "unenlightened Bodhisatta" with: "unenlightened Puthujjana"!kenteramin wrote:My impression of the talks is that the path to buddhahood is not steady work over many many lifetimes but more of a single lifetime achievement of the right man in the right time and place. Is it the case from EBT perspective?
Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
What?! Theory of pure chance?!My impression of the talks is that the path to buddhahood is not steady work over many many lifetimes but more of a single lifetime achievement of the right man in the right time and place. Is it the case from EBT perspective?
Yes.
The Buddha taught a teaching of cause and effect. Not random chances.
If EBT really taught that, it is a lost cause indeed.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
There is also a more conventional meaning of cause & effect. Like in everyday life and physics. When a person wins a lottery it is kind of pure chance from his perspective but there is nothing random from a general point of view. There was a winning ticket so there must have been a winner
Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
Did you read the sutta completely such as MN 36, MN 19, MN 26, MN 85 when he said:santa100 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:32 pm It is not the case from any perspective. There're tons of Sutta instances where the Buddha used the common stock phrase "before enlightenment, while I was still an unenlightened Bodhisatta". Had His path to Buddhahood been accomplished in a single lifetime, He'd have replaced the phrase "unenlightened Bodhisatta" with: "unenlightened Puthujjana"!
He was referring to his current life at that time (from Prince Siddhartha up to be awaken as Buddha Gotama). He was not referring to multiple lives before that.before my enlightenment, while I was still only an unenlightened Bodhisatta
But his true path start when he met Buddha Kassapa on MN 81 Gathikara Sutta. If one read this sutta, they will understand the meaning that he was an ariya by then. But he didn’t manage to finish the job.
This is also implied in DN 14 Mahapadana Sutta.
This implied he didn’t get into non returner or higher.It’s not easy to find an abode of sentient beings where I haven’t previously abided in all this long time, except for the gods of the pure abodes.
That is how I understand.
So if one put effort, one can be awakened here and now. But one needs to understand the conditions for ending of dukkha, otherwise it may just be a dream.
Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
This is an amazing divergence not only from Theravada but even from other Buddhist sects.retrofuturist wrote: ↑Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:58 am Greetings,
Yes.kenteramin wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:11 am My impression of the talks is that the path to buddhahood is not steady work over many many lifetimes but more of a single lifetime achievement of the right man in the right time and place. Is it the case from EBT perspective?
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Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
Greetings Robert,
He was born a puthujjana and "died" an arahant.
You're welcome to show actual Sutta that shows otherwise, but the hagiography that traditions often base their understandings around is not actually found in the Buddha's discourses - it resides solely in their own literary works.
Metta,
Paul.
There is nothing in the Sutta Pitaka that says the Buddha was on any sort of "Buddhist path" before being born.
He was born a puthujjana and "died" an arahant.
You're welcome to show actual Sutta that shows otherwise, but the hagiography that traditions often base their understandings around is not actually found in the Buddha's discourses - it resides solely in their own literary works.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?
Well Venerable Pesala gave a reference to the Buddhavamsa - which is a section of the Khuddaka Nikāya, a part of the Sutta Pitaka , for one.retrofuturist wrote: ↑Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:58 am Greetings Robert,
There is nothing in the Sutta Pitaka that says the Buddha was on any sort of "Buddhist path" before being born.
He was born a puthujjana and "died" an arahant.
You're welcome to show actual Sutta that shows otherwise, but the hagiography that traditions often base their understandings around is not actually found in the Buddha's discourses - it resides solely in their own literary works.
Metta,
Paul.
But can you confirm - are you saying when the Buddha to be was born, he had no background going back many lives developing the path to Buddhahood?