Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
santa100 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:12 am
retrofuturist wrote:I sympathise that your comprehension skills are so atrocious and clouded by aversion.
At least mine doesn't come even close to the level of damage you've done to the Buddha's words, whether thru your ill-intent or just your sheer ignorance. None of the texts you've cited said that the Buddha was a puthujjhana in his last birth. Nil, Zero, absolute zero.
So says Santa100... Whoop-de-doo.

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
santa100
Posts: 6811
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by santa100 »

kenteramin wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:23 am
"Venerable sir I have heard these words from the Blessed One himself and you acknowledged them. ‘Ananda, soon after the Bodhisatta was born, he stood firmly on his feet, and while a white parasol was held over him, took seven steps to the north, surveyed all four directions and uttered these majestic words: “I’m the highest in this world, the best and the foremost. This is my last birth, I will not be born again.’ Venerable sir, this too I hold as something wonderful and marvelous about the Blessed One.
MN 123
I understand the message of this sutta that the Buddha conveys at the end.
But surely the fact that the Buddha himself told the story to Ananda in the first place should mean something, right?
Absolutely. Unfortunately, after 90 posts of this thread, Retro in his poor mind state still adamantly rejects all the evidences provided. Sad!
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
kenteramin wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:23 am
"Venerable sir I have heard these words from the Blessed One himself and you acknowledged them. ‘Ananda, soon after the Bodhisatta was born, he stood firmly on his feet, and while a white parasol was held over him, took seven steps to the north, surveyed all four directions and uttered these majestic words: “I’m the highest in this world, the best and the foremost. This is my last birth, I will not be born again.’ Venerable sir, this too I hold as something wonderful and marvelous about the Blessed One.
MN 123
I understand the message of this sutta that the Buddha conveys at the end.
But surely the fact that the Buddha himself told the story to Ananda in the first place should mean something, right?
If you believe the Buddha made hokey claims about standing up, pointing around, walking around, speaking and making such bold declarations, at birth based on second-hand say so, then by all means believe it. I won't stop you. I'll stick with the Buddha's own accounts, as per MN 85.

I've told you my interpretation of what MN 123 means based on what the Buddha actually says in it, and I'm far more comfortable with that than I would be in believing fantastical say-so that doesn't come directly from the Buddha himself.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
santa100 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:31 am Absolutely. Unfortunately, after 90 posts of this thread, Retro in his poor mind state still adamantly rejects all the evidences provided. Sad!
Your drama and carry on is no match for MN 85, but believe whatever hysterical, nonsensical hocus-pocus you like. For the last time...

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
TRobinson465 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:13 am ...
I don't know because they're not my claims. It's on those who insist he was on a path (rather than merely wandering in samsara) in previous lives to say what path that is. Even better if they can back it with Sutta rather than puff-pieces from the traditions that first coined that supposed alternative path.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
kenteramin
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:04 am

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by kenteramin »

retrofuturist wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:33 am based on second-hand say so
Aren’t all suttas second-hand say-sos judging by this standard?
TRobinson465
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by TRobinson465 »

retrofuturist wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:44 am Even better if they can back it with Sutta rather than puff-pieces from the traditions that first coined that supposed alternative path.
I think the main problem here is that you can just deflect any source that supports a view alternative to yours as a "puff-piece", so its basically useless to argue. When faced with these types of "Heads I win, Tails you lose" arguments I find it better to simply refrain from engaging on the topic further and utilize my time in a superior fashion.

Farewell :anjali:
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
santa100
Posts: 6811
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by santa100 »

retrofuturist wrote:Your drama and carry on is no match for MN 85, but believe whatever hysterical, nonsensical hocus-pocus you like. For the last time...
And also for the last time, please provide a single sutta that explicitly says the Buddha was a puthujjhana in his last birth. Otherwise, it's your claim that is hysterical, nonsensical hocus-pocus.
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Santa,

It has already been said that the word itself was not used. Please follow along with the conversation rather than keep asking things to be re-said to you.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
kenteramin wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:56 am
retrofuturist wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:33 am based on second-hand say so
Aren’t all suttas second-hand say-sos judging by this standard?
It's all a matter of degree. The Buddha being documented actually saying something, in discourses that can reasonably be attributed to him, is probably as close as we can get.

Whether that means we persist in getting "as close as we can" or not is up to the individual. Some will be content simply to give equal weighting to anything written in Pali, and that's their prerogative.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
santa100
Posts: 6811
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by santa100 »

retrofuturist wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 4:20 am Greetings Santa,

It has already been said that the word itself was not used. Please follow along with the conversation rather than keep asking things to be re-said to you.

Metta,
Paul. :)
It's only fair game to continue to request for evidence of sutta quotes that support your claim that "the Buddha was only a puthujjhana in his last birth", unless you withdraw this absolutely absurd claim yourself.
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
santa100 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 4:25 am
retrofuturist wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 4:20 am Greetings Santa,

It has already been said that the word itself was not used. Please follow along with the conversation rather than keep asking things to be re-said to you.

Metta,
Paul. :)
It's only fair game to continue to request for backup sutta quotes to support your claim that "the Buddha was only a puthujjhana in his last birth", unless you withdraw this absolutely absurd claim yourself.
MN 85 shows him searching fruitlessly for the path, in the same lifetime that he became the Buddha.

Thus, the Bodhisatta was clearly not on it at the time.

There is nothing absurd at all about it, despite your erratic hyperbole.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
santa100
Posts: 6811
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by santa100 »

retrofuturist wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 4:27 am Thus, he was clearly the Bodhisatta was not on it.

There is nothing absurd as all about it, despite your erratic hyperbole.

Metta,
Paul. :)
No, it's your erratic hyperbole because not a single word in your provided texts says that "the Buddha was a puthujjhana in his last birth". This is entirely your madeup wild claim that has Zero basis in the any suttas.
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
santa100 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 4:29 am
retrofuturist wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 4:27 am Thus, he was clearly the Bodhisatta was not on it.

There is nothing absurd as all about it, despite your erratic hyperbole.

Metta,
Paul. :)
No, it's your erratic hyperbole because not a single word in your provided texts says that "the Buddha was a puthujjhana in his last birth". This is entirely your madeup claim that has Zero basis in the any suttas.
If you're not on the path, you're a puthujjana.

It's as simple as that.

I'm sorry if something so obvious is so outrageous to you.

Your drama is adding nothing of value to this topic.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
santa100
Posts: 6811
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Did the Bodhisatta walked the path for many lifetimes?

Post by santa100 »

retrofuturist wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 4:30 am If you're not on the path, you're a puthujjana.

It's as simple as that.

I'm sorry if something so obvious is so outrageous to you.

Your drama is adding nothing of value to this topic.

Metta,
Paul. :)
No, it's not "as simple as that", otherwise the Buddha would've said "when I was still an unenlightened Puthujjhana" instead of "when I was still an unenlightened Bodhisatta".

I'm surprised you are not even able to comprehend this simple fact.

Your ignorance is adding nothing of value to this topic.
Post Reply