kāya-sakkhi = 'eyewitness', kāyena phusitvā = 'eyewitness' (lit. touched with the 'body')

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frank k
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kāya-sakkhi = 'eyewitness', kāyena phusitvā = 'eyewitness' (lit. touched with the 'body')

Post by frank k »

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... sitva.html

kāya-sakkhi = 'eyewitness', kāyena phusitvā = 'eyewitness' (lit. touched with the 'body')
I found a great English term to translate kāya-sakkhi and kāyena phusitvā.

This English word has been around since 1539, and is used the same way as kāya-sakkhi and kāyena phusitvā. ...
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Eko Care
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Re: kāya-sakkhi = 'eyewitness', kāyena phusitvā = 'eyewitness' (lit. touched with the 'body')

Post by Eko Care »

A. Bhikkhu wrote: The confusion resulting from that, I observed, can be significant, with the wildest interpretations.
...
well, just make up your own interpretation that you like and makes sense :quote: to you (sometimes only you).
:reading:
Nyanatiloka Dictionary:
kāya-sakkhi': body-witness', is one of the 7 noble disciples (s. ariya-puggala, B.). He is one who "in his own person (lit. body) has attained the 8 deliverances (vimokkha, q.v.), and after wisely understanding the phenomena, the cankers have partly come to extinction" (Pug. 32). In A. IX, 44 it is said: "A monk, o brother, attains the 1st absorption (jhāna, q.v.), and as far as this domain reaches,- so far he has realized it in his own person. Thus the Blessed One calls such a person a body-witness in certain respects. (The same is then repeated with regard to the 7 higher absorptions). Further again, o brother, the monk attains the extinction of perception and feeling (s. nirodha-samāpatti), and after wisely understanding the phenomena, all the cankers come to extinction. Thus, o brother, the Blessed One calls such a person a body-witness in all respects."
kāyasakkhisutta-aṭṭhakathā:
kāyasakkhi vutto bhagavatā pariyāyenāti yasmā tena nāmākāyena paṭhamajjhānaṃ sacchikataṃ, tasmā iminā pariyāyena kāyasakkhi vutto. nippariyāyenāti yattakaṃ kāyena sacchikātabbaṃ, sabbassa katattā ayaṃ nippariyāyena kāyasakkhi nāma.
Puggalapaññatti-aṭṭhakathā:
So hi phuṭṭhantaṃ sacchikarotīti kāyasakkhī. Jhānaphassaṃ paṭhamaṃ phusati, pacchā nirodhaṃ nibbānaṃ sacchikarotītipi kāyasakkhī.
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frank k
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Re: kāya-sakkhi = 'eyewitness', kāyena phusitvā = 'eyewitness' (lit. touched with the 'body')

Post by frank k »

To @eko care:

@A. Bhikkhu did not say the following to me in the OP, and he has not yet participated in this thread.
You are deliberately taking his quote from elsewhere and making it appear he is talking to me.

Why don't you look up in the commentary and let us know what it says about the kind of hell people who commit that kind of deception karma are subject to?
Eko Care wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 8:36 pm
A. Bhikkhu wrote: The confusion resulting from that, I observed, can be significant, with the wildest interpretations.
...
well, just make up your own interpretation that you like and makes sense :quote: to you (sometimes only you).
:reading:
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Re: kāya-sakkhi = 'eyewitness', kāyena phusitvā = 'eyewitness' (lit. touched with the 'body')

Post by Ontheway »

Eko Care wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 8:36 pm
A. Bhikkhu wrote: The confusion resulting from that, I observed, can be significant, with the wildest interpretations.
...
well, just make up your own interpretation that you like and makes sense :quote: to you (sometimes only you).
:reading:
Nyanatiloka Dictionary:
kāya-sakkhi': body-witness', is one of the 7 noble disciples (s. ariya-puggala, B.). He is one who "in his own person (lit. body) has attained the 8 deliverances (vimokkha, q.v.), and after wisely understanding the phenomena, the cankers have partly come to extinction" (Pug. 32). In A. IX, 44 it is said: "A monk, o brother, attains the 1st absorption (jhāna, q.v.), and as far as this domain reaches,- so far he has realized it in his own person. Thus the Blessed One calls such a person a body-witness in certain respects. (The same is then repeated with regard to the 7 higher absorptions). Further again, o brother, the monk attains the extinction of perception and feeling (s. nirodha-samāpatti), and after wisely understanding the phenomena, all the cankers come to extinction. Thus, o brother, the Blessed One calls such a person a body-witness in all respects."
kāyasakkhisutta-aṭṭhakathā:
kāyasakkhi vutto bhagavatā pariyāyenāti yasmā tena nāmākāyena paṭhamajjhānaṃ sacchikataṃ, tasmā iminā pariyāyena kāyasakkhi vutto. nippariyāyenāti yattakaṃ kāyena sacchikātabbaṃ, sabbassa katattā ayaṃ nippariyāyena kāyasakkhi nāma.
Puggalapaññatti-aṭṭhakathā:
So hi phuṭṭhantaṃ sacchikarotīti kāyasakkhī. Jhānaphassaṃ paṭhamaṃ phusati, pacchā nirodhaṃ nibbānaṃ sacchikarotītipi kāyasakkhī.
:goodpost:

Sadhu...
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

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Re: kāya-sakkhi = 'eyewitness', kāyena phusitvā = 'eyewitness' (lit. touched with the 'body')

Post by Eko Care »

frank k wrote: You are deliberately taking his quote from elsewhere and making it appear he is talking to me.
I did not make it appear he is talking to you. It is up to you thinking in such a way.

It was for 'kāya-sakkhi' or for 'eyewitness' in your words.

Or in Nyanatiloka's words, it was intended for realizing the truth 'in your own person'.
frank k wrote: Why don't you look up in the commentary and let us know what it says about the kind of hell people who commit that kind of deception karma are subject to?
I just looked up.

The commentary says the below.
Aṭṭhakathā:

Abhidhammaṃ paṭibāhento imasmiṃ jinacakke pahāraṃ deti, sabbaññutaññāṇaṃ paṭibāhati, satthu vesārajjaññāṇaṃ paṭinivatteti, sotukāmaṃ parisaṃ visaṃvādeti, ariyamagge āvaraṇaṃ bandhati, aṭṭhārasasu bhedakaravatthūsu ekasmiṃ sandissati ukkhepanīyakammatajjanīyakammāraho hoti. Taṃ taṃ kammaṃ katvā uyyojetabbo ‘Gaccha vighāsādo hutvā jīvissasī’ti.

The one who rejects the Abhidhamma
attacks this Conquering-wheel,
rejects the Omniscience,
turns back the Knowledge of self-confidence of the Master,
lies to the congregation who like to listen,
bind an obstruction on the Ariya-path,
is seen in one of the eighteen causes of schism,
is suitable for expelling and threatening,
should be send away having taken relevant action (and having told)"Go and live as a begger!"
What should I do now ??? :thinking:
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Re: kāya-sakkhi = 'eyewitness', kāyena phusitvā = 'eyewitness' (lit. touched with the 'body')

Post by Ṭhānuttamo »

frank k wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 7:34 pm kāya-sakkhi = 'eyewitness', kāyena phusitvā = 'eyewitness' (lit. touched with the 'body')
Was this translation used already somewhere? I may have seen it before ...
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frank k
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Re: kāya-sakkhi = 'eyewitness', kāyena phusitvā = 'eyewitness' (lit. touched with the 'body')

Post by frank k »

A. Bhikkhu wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:41 pm
frank k wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 7:34 pm kāya-sakkhi = 'eyewitness', kāyena phusitvā = 'eyewitness' (lit. touched with the 'body')
Was this translation used already somewhere? I may have seen it before ...
I'm not aware of it's use, otherwise I would reference them and give them credit for coming up with that. Please let us know if you find it.
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