How do monks control their sexual desire?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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tamdrin
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How do monks control their sexual desire?

Post by tamdrin »

I'm just wondering how monks deal with their desire, because I find it very difficult even as a layman... It never ends.
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Bhikkhu_Jayasara
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Re: How do monks control their sexual desire?

Post by Bhikkhu_Jayasara »

no one can ever really control their desire, maybe by force of will for short periods, but not in the long term.

Ideally the path of practice does it, whether lay person or monastic. I can confirm this from personal experience as I still have almost twice the years of practice as a lay person then I do as a monastic and I saw the fruit of the practice unfold.

What happens is as someone sees things as they really are, they develop insight and wisdom, that insight and wisdom naturally births disenchantment and dispassion, and the ability to observe and see something like sexual desire as it arises, to be able to investigate it, to examine the gratification, danger, and escape, and ultimately to choose whether or not to act on it and how.

there is no quick fix, no easy pill, it comes with insight.
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Alino
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Re: How do monks control their sexual desire?

Post by Alino »

People who practice chastity just observe how it arises and how it ceases without believing it to be me, mine, myself.

When one sees a passing car on the street one don't run after it. Why? Because it is not his car.
We should develop the same attitude toward our thoughts, feeings, impulses, body etc.

In the same way when sensual thought arise, and if the mind of practitionner have no wounds, this arosen thought not poisons one's mind, it just arise, remain and ceases without reminder. He is not caught in it, not clign to it, not proliferate about it.

Wounds are created by unwholesome volitional acts of speach, body and mind. If a practitioner delights in sensual toughts, if he delights in sensual actions, if he delights in sensual speach - then, when he decides to keep chastity, his mind is full of wounds, and every sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, thought poisons him, so he suffer.

More one delights in something, more one suffers because of separation from it. In order to deminish delight one need to often reflect about drawback, wisely reflecting about it, rebuilding his perception.

But in order to not stick to arising thoughts one's mind should be calm enough. Being calm - it is not shaken. Being unshaken it just observes how thoughts arises and cease.

In order to develop necessary calm for being unshaken one needs to practice sila (8 precepts if possible), samadhi (3 cessions of formal meditation for a lay practitioner if possible), panna (not being affraid of pain of desire or hatred, not avoid it, but study it very closely. This part is the most challenging because it is unpleasant to be with pain, it needs a lot of determination and patience, but the most effective).

In other words if one wants to free himself from sensuality one needs to take full responsibility for the practice of Eightfold Path. Watching what each spike of the wheel means and apply it to one's life. It's only by making practice one's priority that suffering can be de-construct, and freedom from suffering realised.
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
tamdrin
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Re: How do monks control their sexual desire?

Post by tamdrin »

Bhikkhu_Jayasara wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 2:14 pm no one can ever really control their desire, maybe by force of will for short periods, but not in the long term.

Ideally the path of practice does it, whether lay person or monastic. I can confirm this from personal experience as I still have almost twice the years of practice as a lay person then I do as a monastic and I saw the fruit of the practice unfold.

What happens is as someone sees things as they really are, they develop insight and wisdom, that insight and wisdom naturally births disenchantment and dispassion, and the ability to observe and see something like sexual desire as it arises, to be able to investigate it, to examine the gratification, danger, and escape, and ultimately to choose whether or not to act on it and how.

there is no quick fix, no easy pill, it comes with insight.
Thank you for your insights venerable. I anumodana in your path.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: How do monks control their sexual desire?

Post by Mahabrahma »

I’ve been celibate for over fifteen years. It comes from not caring for any residence :jumping: .
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
TRobinson465
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Re: How do monks control their sexual desire?

Post by TRobinson465 »

Some don't but they just avoid acting out on it. Although Ive found that if you practice celibacy long enuff you tend to get used to it. Its like that rash youve always had, once you stop itching it it fades away. Also, if you meditate a lot and well Ive found that your too content on the jhana high to care about such things.
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sunnat
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Post by sunnat »

Difficulty is dependent on how much lust has been nurtured in the past and how much time and effort is spent being in the present. There is the vinaya which is formulated to support pro-Dhamma living. There is admirable friendship that support and there are wholesome activities that support. There are the elders and other wise persons to discuss with and listen to.

It is extra difficult to be a solitary lay practitioner. It helps to find a monastery to spend time in. A very good thing about monasteries is that the way they are set up it is easier to relax into meditation and avoid stimulation. Where there is stimulation it is easier to turn away from it.
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bkmudita
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Re: How do monks control their sexual desire?

Post by bkmudita »

tamdrin wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:37 pm I'm just wondering how monks deal with their desire, because I find it very difficult even as a layman... It never ends.
As long as we still have a human body, sexual desire will rise, it is normal. With practice, it is possible to decrease it be almost negligible, almost none. First is concentration practice, in some very concentrated state, we can experience extremely blissful mind states, many times more blissful and pure then what's from sex. This may help to develop certain disenchantment from sex. Then, by investigating the nature of human being, we may come to the understanding that humans are created by genetic manipulation from animal. This sexual instinct is from the animal part and we can even separate it from the mind. When we die, this sexual desire is the main force that drags us back into this realm with sex, kama realm. Like gravity hold us on this planet. If we can control the mind not to be dragged by the sexual desire, we can be liberated from this sexual realm, a step closer to full liberation. When such thought matures, it can significantly shift your view and life style. There are other ways to see the nature of humans and this world as well that can work in similar way. Try some.
pegembara
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Re: How do monks control their sexual desire?

Post by pegembara »

tamdrin wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:37 pm I'm just wondering how monks deal with their desire, because I find it very difficult even as a layman... It never ends.
Maybe by deconstructing? Are teeth, body hair, and internal parts like skeleton beautiful? Skin-bag?
Beauty is truly only skin deep!
"Furthermore, the monk reflects on this very body from the soles of the feet on up, from the crown of the head on down, surrounded by skin and full of various kinds of unclean things: 'In this body there are head hairs, body hairs, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, tendons, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, large intestines, small intestines, gorge, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, skin-oil, saliva, mucus, fluid in the joints, urine.' Just as if a sack with openings at both ends were full of various kinds of grain — wheat, rice, mung beans, kidney beans, sesame seeds, husked rice — and a man with good eyesight, pouring it out, were to reflect, 'This is wheat. This is rice. These are mung beans. These are kidney beans. These are sesame seeds. This is husked rice'; in the same way, the monk reflects on this very body from the soles of the feet on up, from the crown of the head on down, surrounded by skin and full of various kinds of unclean things: 'In this body there are head hairs, body hairs, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, tendons, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, large intestines, small intestines, gorge, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, skin-oil, saliva, mucus, fluid in the joints, urine.' And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.
"Furthermore, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground — one day, two days, three days dead — bloated, livid, & festering, he applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate'...
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
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SarathW
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Re: How do monks control their sexual desire?

Post by SarathW »

I think whether you are a monk or the lay person is the same.
In my opinion seen the gratification, drawback and the escape is the way to eliminate any desire.
When evil unskillful thoughts connected with desire, hate, and delusion arise in a bhikkhu through reflection on an adventitious object, he should, (in order to get rid of that), reflect on a different object which is connected with skill. Then the evil unskillful thoughts are eliminated; they disappear. By their elimination, the mind stands firm, settles down, becomes unified and concentrated, just within (his subject of meditation).
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el021.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
2600htz
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Re: How do monks control their sexual desire?

Post by 2600htz »

Hi:

The most important part is sense restrain.
If a person avoids making contact with the form of a beautiful woman, smells, etc. Then most of that desires dont arise. Its just staying away from stimulus.

If you add to that meditation, the environment of a monastery, morality, diet, livelihood, etc. Then its really not that hard for a monk after a while.

Regards
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