I’ll share what I feel is appropriate as of this time. For me whatever teaching materials that’s in the Tipitaka, that’s all I / will mostly consult from. If one try to make what’s shared here compatible with late commentaries like the Visuddhimagga and some English translated sutta’s, there might be possible inconsistencies.
What I learned and makes sense to me so far for the explanation / interpretation of sutta’s with the words “vitakka” “vicara” and others that will be mentioned below. Long story short (needs some explanation . . .), to partially to answer your question, instead of “removal of thoughts”, replace it with “the removal of “bad / unwholesome / akusala, etc . . . thoughts”.
I’ll reword things a bit to your op question . . . “What’s the explanation / instruction / process, etc . . . for the REMOVAL (ariya) or the SUPPRESSION (anariya) of “bad thoughts” akusala / unwholesome / miccha sankappa / panca nivarana, etc . . . with anapanasati to get into 2nd jhana?”.
Note, I just use the word anapanasati, it’s up to each one to decide what anapanasati is. To me, it’s not breath meditation.
I will explain a little though about vitakka and vicara according to what I learned and my understanding. Hope this helps some . . . May any merits belong to the Buddha Sasana and help us all satta’s to attain Nibbana.
What’s share here, the credit belongs to the teachers / teaching materials. Saddhu saddhu saddhu
Vitakka, Vicara, Savitakka, Savicara, and Avitakka, Avicara.
ToVincent mentioned: Vitakka/vitarka [act. vitark] . . . which makes the vacīsaṅkhāro (a.k.a. verbal determination/co-action) much more logical.
A reference to what you mentioned, In MN 117 Mahacattarisakasutta, it mentions vitakka is related to vaci sankhara.
Katamo ca, bhikkhave, sammāsaṅkappo ariyo anāsavo lokuttaro maggaṅgo? Yo kho, bhikkhave, ariyacittassa anāsavacittassa ariyamaggasamaṅgino ariyamaggaṁ bhāvayato
takko vitakko saṅkappo appanā byappanā cetaso abhiniropanā
vacīsaṅkhāro—ayaṁ, bhikkhave, sammāsaṅkappo ariyo anāsavo lokuttaro maggaṅgo.
(SC translation)
And what is right thought that is noble, undefiled, transcendent, a factor of the path? It’s the thinking—the placing of the mind, thought, applying, application, implanting of the mind, verbal processes—in one of noble mind and undefiled mind, who possesses the noble path and develops the noble—This is right thought that is noble.
Translation of that passage from learning materials I learn from. (Not my translation).
• Translated: “And what, bhikkhus, is Sammā Saṅkappa that is Noble, without āsava, supramundane, a factor of the Noble Path? Those are Noble thoughts (ariyacittāsa) that are devoid of cravings (anāsa¬va-cittāsa), belong to the Noble Path (ariya¬magga¬samaṅ¬gino ariyamaggaṃ bhāvayato) with takko vitakko saṅkappo appanā byappanā cetaso abhiniropanā vacī saṅkhāro: that is Sammā Saṅkappa that is Noble, a factor of the Noble Path”.
Something important to be aware of, if one is not already, is that the “verbal process” is not just speaking from our mouths, but can also be when we talk / speak to ourselves in our own minds, like contemplation, analyzing, etc . . .
There’s an important connection to see with vaci sankhara and sankappa, vaca (such as samma sankappa, samma vaca). Vaci sankhara’s can be the same as vaca (miccha / samma vaca), or the example of when one is contemplating the Buddha Dhamma in one's mind. . . Sorry, I’m skipping and going to skip a lot of information / explanation here.
(This sentence copied exactly from teaching material) “The words takka, vitakka, vicara, the closest English words could be “think one way”, further / counter analysis, investigate in depth. They are the same as vaci sankhara”.
What I learned and understood so far is that the general idea / meaning behind the words takka, vitakka, vicara, Savitakka, Savicara, Avitakka and Avicara describes our conscious thinking about a thought object (arammana). We either silently “talk to ourselves” in our minds or speak out while analyzing / pondering / contemplating / deciding, etc . . .
“Vittaka” is usually reserved for or more often than not, mean “bad / unwholesome / akusala, thoughts. One way (other ways) to look at this is thoughts of akusala’s done with the mind. Abhijja (covetousness / greed), Vyapada (ill-will / hatred), Miccha ditthi (wrong views).
BUT in some cases though Vittaka can mean “ALL KINDS OF THOUGHTS GOOD or BAD”. It’s beneficial to keep an open mind about the possibility of needing to identify which meaning to use in the context. Below is an example.
SN 9.11 (Example where “vitakka” is used for bad thoughts / unwholesome / akusala thoughts).
"Tena kho pana samayena so bhikkhu divāvihāragato pāpake akusale vitakke vitakketi, seyyathidaṁ—kāmavitakkaṁ, byāpādavitakkaṁ, vihiṁsāvitakkaṁ."
"Now at that time that mendicant, during their day’s meditation, was thinking bad, unskillful thoughts, that is: sensual, malicious, and cruel thoughts."
From Abhidhamma in the Tipitaka. Dhatuvibhanga Vb3. (Example where “vitakka” is used for good / wholesome / kusala thoughts).
"Tattha katamā nekkhammadhātu? Nekkhammapaṭisaṁyutto takko vitakko …pe… sammāsaṅkappo—ayaṁ vuccati “nekkhammadhātu”
Translation of that passage from learning materials I learn from. (Not my translation).
“What is the element of renunciation? Takka, vitakka, sankappa, appana, byappana (remaing there, which is related to vicara), which lead to establishing correct views (leading to the removal of defilements).”
I’m not going to mention about Savitakka, Savicara, and Avitakka, Avicara, in this post. Let’s say frank k, if you can find a / some suitable explanations to what those 6 words mean and as well most importantly being able to navigate your way through the maze of
English translated sutta’s and other’s interpretations. You should be able find an answer to your question.
I saw you mention something in your op post.
"They should develop the perception of ugliness to give up greed, love to give up hate, mindfulness of breathing to cut off thinking, and perception of impermanence to uproot the conceit ‘I am’."
"asubhā bhāvetabbā rāgassa pahānāya, mettā bhāvetabbā byāpādassa pahānāya, ānāpānassati bhāvetabbā vitakkupacchedāya, aniccasaññā bhāvetabbā asmimānasamugghātāya. Variant: ānāpānassati → ānāpānasati (bj, pts1ed)"
Something for consideration . . . if anyone is practicing those bhavana’s the way it’s being described in English, I hope one can be honest with themselves to see if they feel like it’s helping one to make progress on the path. The way I understand / realized/ know how to practice those bhavana’s . . . is completely different than what’s being described in English as . . .
Back to your op question, it would be / mean “bad thoughts” in this case. Just a quick explanation . . . one needs to withdraw or abstain from akusala dhamma (unwholesome) or “bad thoughts” and arise, keep “good, wholesome, kusala thoughts, or kusala mano & vaci sankhara (samma sankappa, samma vaca, etc . . .) to get into jhana’s . . .
I am a Buddhist that doesn't practice Buddhism. What I practice is nekkhamma, abyāpāda, avihiṁsā, viraga, nirodha or the Noble Eight Fold Path. The elimination / eradication / extermination of defilements, kilesa's, raga, dosa, moha and asava's.
Lineage: Buddha > Sthaviravada > Vibhajjavada > Theravada > Striving for Nibbana.
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