Why Monks Say Kasina Very Dangerous

[Strive4Karuna]

https://mahamevnawa.lk/are-you-afraid-of-meditation/




Many monks say, Kasina is dangerous. People use Kasina to play around and as entertainment, is this what we want?

Kasina can lead you to hell if your intentions are not right.

[Strive4Karuna]

The saint life is not about playing around.

Look at Devadatta. Enamoured with his own Siddhi-lights<—-

Purify the mind.

Do not be enamoured with all the lights and colours.

[Ontheway]

Utterly misleading. Those who able to attain Kasina Jhanas will go to upper heavenly realms, not below.

It is just the wrong views that will bring downfall to meditators. For the case of Devadatta, it is his hatred towards the Buddha that brings him downfall. Not Kasina meditations.

I suggest you READ the Pāli Tipitaka and Atthakatha scriptures rather than hearsay here and there.

[dharmalotus48]

Utterly misleading. Those who able to attain Kasina Jhanas will go to upper heavenly realms, not below.

It is just the wrong views that will bring downfall to meditators. For the case of Devadatta, it is his hatred towards the Buddha that brings him downfall. Not Kasina meditations.

I suggest you READ the Pāli Tipitaka and Atthakatha scriptures rather than hearsay here and there.

ontheway

your point certainly seems fair

can you please provide a sutta thats says Kasina Jhanas lead to heavenly realms?

Couldnt Devadatta enter the 4th jhana? Those able to enter the 4th jhana certainly go the "heavenly realm" as well but Devadatta did not.
I do not understand please explain.

[dharmacorps]

It seems you have just found a single monk maybe saying that kasinas can be dangerous.

Saying "monks say" is misleading and suggests, without evidence might I add, that many monks, most monks, or all monks claim this.

If kasinas were harmful, the Buddha wouldn't have taught them.

[form]

Whether there is unwholesome concentration or not is a difference between the view of vismgga and vimutimagga. All meditation objects can lead to Jhanas. In the suttas, Only wholesome Jhanas are taught, although the Buddha did mention wrong concentration in some suttas. Wholesome Jhanas are equated almost to enlightenment in some suttas, as in it will almost always lead to liberation insights without the mentioning of the four noble truths.

If one is really worry about using a wrong concentration object, the safest will be using universal love, compassion, empathetic joy and equanimity.

[Ontheway]

Funny, as if you know better than Lord Buddha Himself.

[James206]

I feel and practice with the understanding that Jhana is making your ablutions before engaging in Vipassana. It is prepping your mind so you're ready to engage at the highest level in dhamma vicaya - exploration of phenomena. Which is what Vipassana is all about.

I was hoping to find this verse discussed here - describing the 4th jhana
- My mind thus purified, bright, unblemished, rid of imperfection, malleable, wieldy, steady and attained to imperturbability, I directed it to knowledge.
-- Imperturbability is a synonym for equanimity (upekkha)

Jhana is preparation for Vipassana (whether it is indispensable or not to reach awakening is another question) - getting yourself all cleaned up and in top mental shape for engaging with the stuff that comes up in Vipassana. The fact that jhana is so beneficial to simple engagement with day to day, moment to moment life is an added benefit. It's like road work and jumping rope for fighters. Playing scales and practicing finger work for pianists.

Investigating different objects of focus like kasinas, other than to heighten jhana according to the natural proclivities of your mind, seems like a distraction. Whatever object of concentration you use in jhana is a tool not an objective. The row boat, canoe, sail boat that gets you across the river into concentration is unimportant once you reach the other side and your mind is concentrated. The object of focus becomes your concentrated mind itself - ekaggata - single pointedness - the substrate in which jhana grows and ripens.

[bazzaman]

Whether there is unwholesome concentration or not is a difference between the view of vismgga and vimutimagga. All meditation objects can lead to Jhanas. In the suttas, Only wholesome Jhanas are taught, although the Buddha did mention wrong concentration in some suttas. Wholesome Jhanas are equated almost to enlightenment in some suttas, as in it will almost always lead to liberation insights without the mentioning of the four noble truths.

If one is really worry about using a wrong concentration object, the safest will be using universal love, compassion, empathetic joy and equanimity.

Your " vismgga and vimutimagga" I take it are references to Visuddhimagga and Vimuttimagga; but you do not say if you rely on them in any way to support your views. According to Visuddhimagga, your statement that " All meditation objects can lead to Jhanas." is not correct.
"106. 2 As to which bring access only and which absorption: the eight recollections—
excepting mindfulness occupied with the body and mindfulness of breathing—
the perception of repulsiveness in nutriment, and the defining of the four elements,
are ten meditation subjects that bring access only. The others bring absorption." Vsm. Chapter III 106 Ven. Nanmoli trans.

[BrokenBones]

The saint life is not about playing around.

Look at Devadatta. Enamoured with his own Siddhi-lights<—-

Purify the mind.

Do not be enamoured with all the lights and colours.

It seems that were two approaches. One with kasina's which Devadatta used and was able to obtain psychic powers; and one which the Buddha constantly praised and minimal success meant heavenly rebirth... this is the gradual teaching towards jhana.

[SarathW]

The saint life is not about playing around.

Look at Devadatta. Enamoured with his own Siddhi-lights<—-

Purify the mind.

Do not be enamoured with all the lights and colours.

Perhaps consider practicing Kasina meditation if you believe that at least you are a Sotapanna.
It is important to remember that Buddha allowed monks to practice Samatha meditation.
Kasina is only one subset of Kasina which lead to higher Jhana attainments and supernormal powers.

[Johann]

Certain most popular and new ways of teaching those, not ready for higher, are not only of no real benefit but often also very dangerous (downwardly leading). Meditation based on wrong view leads to wrong concentration and wrong release. As long as not seeing danger in the world, in sensuality (1 Truth), if meditations are good, lead just to temp. good dwellings. As training of mind can also act as training of householder-equanimity, such carries much harm for oneself and others within.

It's of no compassion to even make a living on teaching meditation without base, like to teach making dangerous tools to those without virtues, right view, good householder and their teacher.

[form]

Whether there is unwholesome concentration or not is a difference between the view of vismgga and vimutimagga. All meditation objects can lead to Jhanas. In the suttas, Only wholesome Jhanas are taught, although the Buddha did mention wrong concentration in some suttas. Wholesome Jhanas are equated almost to enlightenment in some suttas, as in it will almost always lead to liberation insights without the mentioning of the four noble truths.

If one is really worry about using a wrong concentration object, the safest will be using universal love, compassion, empathetic joy and equanimity.

Your " vismgga and vimutimagga" I take it are references to Visuddhimagga and Vimuttimagga; but you do not say if you rely on them in any way to support your views. According to Visuddhimagga, your statement that " All meditation objects can lead to Jhanas." is not correct.
"106. 2 As to which bring access only and which absorption: the eight recollections—
excepting mindfulness occupied with the body and mindfulness of breathing—
the perception of repulsiveness in nutriment, and the defining of the four elements,
are ten meditation subjects that bring access only. The others bring absorption." Vsm. Chapter III 106 Ven. Nanmoli trans.

The difference is based on a book that compare the two magga books. You can find the info online.

[TRobinson465]

the benefit and danger of kasina. There are some dangers with kasina meditation but that is true with anything. Including the Dhamma itself. the Buddha iterated that wrong graspedness of the Dhamma can lead to hell. But of course he still taught Dhamma because the benefits outweigh the dangers. Same with why he taught kasina meditation and praised it as fruitful, the benefits outweight the cost.

There is danger to any surgery, but surgeons still exist because it is often so beneficial that it is usually worth the risks.