Dhammayut nikaya in Thailand

[Learnersimple311]

I'm a foreigner lay person and have been planning to purchase a residence in Thailand as my 2nd home because some of my relatives are staying in Thailand.

Initially planned to purchase a residence in Bangkok near to the Dhammayut monasteries because from what I had learnt that the Dhammayut monasteries are living in a standard closer to the vinaya and the dhamma.
But recently after the death of the former abbot of Wat Bowonniwet Vihara, Somdet Phra Wannarat, the controversy arose over the issue of a close devotee friend of the former abbot, embezzled about 200 millions Baht from the account of the former abbot/the account of the Vihara under the only sole guardian of the former abbot?!
First of all, Dhammayut monks are not supposed to handle money and the former abbot of Wat Bowonniwet was handling the account of 200 million Bahts all by himself(not by a committee group)?!
I was very shocked that this corruption happened within Wat Bowonniwet and the revered former abbot late Somdet Phra Wannarat was involved.

Hence I think it is better for me to avoid those famous wealthy grand monasteries in order to stay away from the corruption of the Sangha.

It is less likely for me to consider too much on those Thai forest traditions under the lineage of Ajahn MUN or Ajahn Chah,as I have some brief understanding that they focus more on their own meditation experiences than the sutta study.


I'm still considering for a place to stay near to the Dhammayut monasteries where I can learn the Dhamma accordingly to the sutta, do merits by offering to the disciplined monks and helping to do the tasks in the monasteries, taking the precepts as a layperson and of course to meditate.

I'm not familiar with Thailand.
So any good recommendations for such
disciplined Dhammayut monasteries?
Bangkok, Chiang Mai or any elsewhere in Thailand will be taken into consideration.

[Goofaholix]

Are you fluent in Thai? if not that's going to severely restrict your options to learn the Dhamma accordingly to the suttas in Thailand, so you are better to focus on monasteries that can communicate in a language you can understand.

Monasteries under the Ajahn Mun (Dhammayut) or Ajahn Chah (Mahanikaya) lineages emphasis vinaya and mediation rather than sutta study, there are several that have english speakers and foreign lay people can practice there. I don't know about the corruption you mentioned but most branch monasteries will be totally seperate from that

I'm not aware of anywhere that foreigners can do sutta study, I'm not sure there is demand for that in Thailand.

[SarathW]

Hence I think it is better for me to avoid those famous wealthy grand monasteries in order to stay away from the corruption of the Sangha.

In my opinion, It is not possible to find a place of curruptions-free Sangha anywhere in the world.
The way I understand Dhammaut Nikaya objectifies Nibbana and hence it is against the teaching of Tipitaka.

[santa100]

I was very shocked that this corruption happened within Wat Bowonniwet and the revered former abbot late Somdet Phra Wannarat was involved

Why should you be so shocked about any of those? Unless a monk's already attained one of the Four Noble Fruits, which guarantee Non-Retrogression on the Path, any monk, even the world's most renowned one's still subjected to unwholesome underlying tendencies and defilements, which means if they are exposed to wealth, women, fame, prestige long enough, they WILL become corrupted. It's not a question of if, but when.

[bazzaman]

The way I understand Dhammaut Nikaya objectifies Nibbana and hence it is against the teaching of Tipitaka.

This is such a sweeping statement that I would ask the Pundit to please provide some explanation, or links to articles supporting this view. Or is it possible that Dhammayut (not 'Dammaut') is being confused with Dhammakaya?

[Learnersimple311]

I was very shocked that this corruption happened within Wat Bowonniwet and the revered former abbot late Somdet Phra Wannarat was involved

Why should you be so shocked about any of those? Unless a monk's already attained one of the Four Noble Fruits, which guarantee Non-Retrogression on the Path, any monk, even the world's most renowned one's still subjected to unwholesome underlying tendencies and defilements, which means if they are exposed to wealth, women, fame, prestige long enough, they WILL become corrupted. It's not a question of if, but when.

Yes I agreed that as long as we have not attained arahantship, we still have defilements.
But it is still quite shocking that the system of the
headquarter of Dhammayut order allowed this to happen. Not just a small corruption, it is under civil investigation now.

I just wanted to go to a simple place where I could learn the Dhamma and make offerings to simple disciplined monks. Don't want any complications. I think monasteries in the rural areas will be more suitable as those grand famous and rich monasteries in the city(Bangkok) have too much temptations to distract ones from walking on the right path.
But I was not familiar with those beyond Bangkok.

[Learnersimple311]

Are you fluent in Thai? if not that's going to severely restrict your options to learn the Dhamma accordingly to the suttas in Thailand, so you are better to focus on monasteries that can communicate in a language you can understand.

Monasteries under the Ajahn Mun (Dhammayut) or Ajahn Chah (Mahanikaya) lineages emphasis vinaya and mediation rather than sutta study, there are several that have english speakers and foreign lay people can practice there. I don't know about the corruption you mentioned but most branch monasteries will be totally seperate from that

I'm not aware of anywhere that foreigners can do sutta study, I'm not sure there is demand for that in Thailand.

Yes, I am on the way learning Thai language because should be staying there for most of the time after retirement.

[unassumingtable]

Here are some recommendations for you, based on my personal experiences, as well as recommendations I read from other people:

1. Wat Yannasangwaram, Chonburi
The teacher, Ajahn Suchart, is a revered disciple of Luangta Maha Boowa, and is seemingly a very highly attained meditator. He is also fluent in English. If you stay here you will have ample opportunity and free time for meditation. Keep in mind that this temple is very popular among Thai visitors, so it can be quite loud/busy in the dining hall, and Ajahn is often busy giving Dhamma talks to Thai visitors. Still, should you have any pressing concerns regarding your meditation practice, you should be able to find an opportunity to ask Ajahn your questions. If you plan on visiting here, make sure to contact them in advance as accommodations are limited!

2. Wat Phu Kong Tong, Udon Thani
The teacher Ajahn Martin is a German monk who is another disciple of Luangta Maha Boowa, and also a very accomplished meditator. And of course is also fluent in English. This place is even more quiet than Wat Yannasangwaram, and since it is more "out of the way", Ajahn Martin is more available for 1 on 1 guidance, should you need it. Note that Ajahn Martin is a very direct and very good teacher, but the environment in this monastery is also pretty intense. So only come here if you are serious about your meditation practice.

3. Wat Boonyawad, Chonburi
I haven't visited this Wat, but the teacher, Ajahn Dtun, is supposedly a very highly accomplished student of Ajahn Chah. I'm pretty sure that he doesn't speak any English, but as far as I know his lieutenant is fluent in English and can function as a translator if you have any questions. I'm not sure about the accommodations for this particular monastery, but I am assuming it is similar to Wat Yannasangwaram in terms of busyness and popularity.

4. Wat Marp Jan, Chonburi
I don't know much about this place, aside from the fact that the teacher, Ajahn Anan, is also a highly regarded student of Ajahn Chah

Here is a list of other random (mostly Dhammayut) temples you can look into which were recommended on the internet, and by other members of this forum:

Wat Phra Chow Dtone Luang
Wat Phu Sangho
Wat Ambhavan
Wat Tum Tao
Wat Sangtham
Wat Pah Subthawee
Wat Khaoyai Yanasampanno
Wat Phu Pa Daeng
Wat Thamsahai
Wat Pah Sala Noi
Wat Pah Na Kam Noi

I barely know anything about these other temples, so it would be great if another member of the forum has more information regarding the necessity of speaking Thai, competence of the teachers, and living situation in these other temples.

Let me know if you have any other specific questions.

[Learnersimple311]

Here are some recommendations for you, based on my personal experiences, as well as recommendations I read from other people:

1. Wat Yannasangwaram, Chonburi
The teacher, Ajahn Suchart, is a revered disciple of Luangta Maha Boowa, and is seemingly a very highly attained meditator. He is also fluent in English. If you stay here you will have ample opportunity and free time for meditation. Keep in mind that this temple is very popular among Thai visitors, so it can be quite loud/busy in the dining hall, and Ajahn is often busy giving Dhamma talks to Thai visitors. Still, should you have any pressing concerns regarding your meditation practice, you should be able to find an opportunity to ask Ajahn your questions. If you plan on visiting here, make sure to contact them in advance as accommodations are limited!

2. Wat Phu Kong Tong, Udon Thani
The teacher Ajahn Martin is a German monk who is another disciple of Luangta Maha Boowa, and also a very accomplished meditator. And of course is also fluent in English. This place is even more quiet than Wat Yannasangwaram, and since it is more "out of the way", Ajahn Martin is more available for 1 on 1 guidance, should you need it. Note that Ajahn Martin is a very direct and very good teacher, but the environment in this monastery is also pretty intense. So only come here if you are serious about your meditation practice.

3. Wat Boonyawad, Chonburi
I haven't visited this Wat, but the teacher, Ajahn Dtun, is supposedly a very highly accomplished student of Ajahn Chah. I'm pretty sure that he doesn't speak any English, but as far as I know his lieutenant is fluent in English and can function as a translator if you have any questions. I'm not sure about the accommodations for this particular monastery, but I am assuming it is similar to Wat Yannasangwaram in terms of busyness and popularity.

4. Wat Marp Jan, Chonburi
I don't know much about this place, aside from the fact that the teacher, Ajahn Anan, is also a highly regarded student of Ajahn Chah

Here is a list of other random (mostly Dhammayut) temples you can look into which were recommended on the internet, and by other members of this forum:

Wat Phra Chow Dtone Luang
Wat Phu Sangho
Wat Ambhavan
Wat Tum Tao
Wat Sangtham
Wat Pah Subthawee
Wat Khaoyai Yanasampanno
Wat Phu Pa Daeng
Wat Thamsahai
Wat Pah Sala Noi
Wat Pah Na Kam Noi

I barely know anything about these other temples, so it would be great if another member of the forum has more information regarding the necessity of speaking Thai, competence of the teachers, and living situation in these other temples.

Let me know if you have any other specific questions.

Thank you for your detailed recommendations.
Seems like I have to visit the places to see which ones is more suitable for me before choosing a dwelling place near the monastery.

[santa100]

Yes I agreed that as long as we have not attained arahantship, we still have defilements.
But it is still quite shocking that the system of the
headquarter of Dhammayut order allowed this to happen. Not just a small corruption, it is under civil investigation now.

Large established organizations whether civil or religious have their own agendas and priorities. If you think that gigantic religious corporations like Dhammayut place enlightenment at the top of their priority list, then you're gravely mistaken. Their highest priority is the stable, continuous, and profitable operation of their corporation. In some sense, one can't really blame them. Once an organization's grown beyond a certain size, the administration/business operation will have to take higher priority than whatever the original noble goal was, if one wants to maintain smooth operation of such large entity. Why do you think the Roman Catholic Church covered up all those widespread dirty sexual abuses of children by their priests for so long, some cases took decades to uncover?

[robertk]

I'm a foreigner lay person and have been planning to purchase a residence in Thailand as my 2nd home because some of my relatives are staying in Thailand.

Initially planned to purchase a residence in Bangkok near to the Dhamm.

I'm not familiar with Thailand.
So any good recommendations for such
disciplined Dhammayut monasteries?
Bangkok, Chiang Mai or any elsewhere in Thailand will be taken into consideration.

Dhamma Study and Support Foundation
Category : Foundations-Educational
Address 174/1 Soi 78 Charoennakhon Rd. Khwang Dao Khanong, Khet Thon Buri, Bangkok 10600
Is where I have been going for decades. Main teacher is Sujin boriharnwanaket who has excellent English. Also several noted Pali scholars .

Meetings in English weekly.
I no longer live in Thailand but will be there next month.

[Learnersimple311]

I'm a foreigner lay person and have been planning to purchase a residence in Thailand as my 2nd home because some of my relatives are staying in Thailand.

Initially planned to purchase a residence in Bangkok near to the Dhamm.

I'm not familiar with Thailand.
So any good recommendations for such
disciplined Dhammayut monasteries?
Bangkok, Chiang Mai or any elsewhere in Thailand will be taken into consideration.

Dhamma Study and Support Foundation
Category : Foundations-Educational
Address 174/1 Soi 78 Charoennakhon Rd. Khwang Dao Khanong, Khet Thon Buri, Bangkok 10600
Is where I have been going for decades. Main teacher is Sujin boriharnwanaket who has excellent English. Also several noted Pali scholars .

Meetings in English weekly.
I no longer live in Thailand but will be there next month.

[Learnersimple311]

Yes I agreed that as long as we have not attained arahantship, we still have defilements.
But it is still quite shocking that the system of the
headquarter of Dhammayut order allowed this to happen. Not just a small corruption, it is under civil investigation now.

Large established organizations whether civil or religious have their own agendas and priorities. If you think that gigantic religious corporations like Dhammayut place enlightenment at the top of their priority list, then you're gravely mistaken. Their highest priority is the stable, continuous, and profitable operation of their corporation. In some sense, one can't really blame them. Once an organization's grown beyond a certain size, the administration/business operation will have to take higher priority than whatever the original noble goal was, if one wants to maintain smooth operation of such large entity. Why do you think the Roman Catholic Church covered up all those widespread dirty sexual abuses of children by their priests for so long, some cases took decades to uncover?

It's time for them to put some effort to review their system regarding the vinaya and management system, otherwise no longer a conducive place for learning and practising the Dhamma . It is against the vinaya as well as the mission of Dhammayut order.

[Learnersimple311]

Yes I agreed that as long as we have not attained arahantship, we still have defilements.
But it is still quite shocking that the system of the
headquarter of Dhammayut order allowed this to happen. Not just a small corruption, it is under civil investigation now.

Large established organizations whether civil or religious have their own agendas and priorities. If you think that gigantic religious corporations like Dhammayut place enlightenment at the top of their priority list, then you're gravely mistaken. Their highest priority is the stable, continuous, and profitable operation of their corporation. In some sense, one can't really blame them. Once an organization's grown beyond a certain size, the administration/business operation will have to take higher priority than whatever the original noble goal was, if one wants to maintain smooth operation of such large entity. Why do you think the Roman Catholic Church covered up all those widespread dirty sexual abuses of children by their priests for so long, some cases took decades to uncover?

Not associates with fools, associates with the wise,and to honour those who are worthy of honour — this is the
greatest blessing.
To reside in a suitable locality, to have done meritorious
actions in the past and to set oneself in the right course — this
is the greatest blessing.
{ Mangala Sutta}

[superedan]

The sole meal that Thammayut bhikkhus are expected to eat each day is one, not two, and it must be acquired during a typical alms round.
1v1 lol