Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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NotMe
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by NotMe »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:01 am
NotMe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:59 am Been there done that.
Don’t go back
Too late. Here I am back in the frying pan.

Edit to add: actually I agree with you. Let’s not go back.

:toast:
:focus:
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cappuccino
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by cappuccino »

the method is to just read the teaching


then accept the teaching


that's the entire difficulty
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NotMe
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by NotMe »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:06 am the method is to just read the teaching


then accept the teaching


that's the entire difficulty
Finding the right teacher is going to become more and more difficult especially in the future or am I a pessimist?
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cappuccino
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by cappuccino »

NotMe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:07 am Finding the right teacher is going to become more and more difficult
Buddha is the teacher
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NotMe
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by NotMe »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:08 am
NotMe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:07 am Finding the right teacher is going to become more and more difficult especially end of the future or am I a pessimist?
Buddha is the teacher
Tarnation! Dad gum it! No I said yes Siri get it right. You little whippersnapper why do I have to agree with you! Bitter taste grin

Famous last words: I refused to eat crow ear I said HERE! Thank you Siri
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NotMe
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by NotMe »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:11 am:lol:
How do you start a poll?

Is Cappy laughing with me? Cappy Siri thank you
Or is Cappy laughing at me?
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NotMe
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by NotMe »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:11 am:lol:
How do you start a poll?

Is Cappy laughing with me? Cappy Siri thank you
Or is Cappy laughing at me?

Rhetorical.
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cappuccino
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by cappuccino »

NotMe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:13 am Is Cappy laughing with me?
Or is Cappy laughing at me?
you are text on a screen, as am I
BrokenBones
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by BrokenBones »

Is there a 'method' in all this madness? :computerproblem:
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cappuccino
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by cappuccino »

BrokenBones wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:23 am Is there a 'method' in all this madness? :computerproblem:
You can’t necessarily escape the madness


You can merely not participate
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Alex123
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by Alex123 »

atipattoh wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:39 am The samadhi in Sandha Sutta refer to saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ; “someone who has attained the cessation of perception and feeling, perception and feeling have ceased”.
Not necessarily:
In the state described in Sandha sutta there might still be perception:
"Friend Sariputta, could a monk have an attainment of concentration such that he would neither be percipient of earth with regard to earth, nor of water with regard to water, nor of fire... wind... the dimension of the infinitude of space... the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness... the dimension of nothingness... the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception... this world... nor of the next world with regard to the next world, and yet he would still be percipient?"

"Yes, friend Ananda, he could..."
AN10.7

Sandha sutta says:
"perception of earth with regard to earth has ceased to exist;" . Note it is NOT necessarily the bare perception of the object itself that ceases. Same for all the other categories.

I see a good parallel to what is said in MN#1
The Blessed One said: "There is the case, monks, where an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — who has no regard for noble ones, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma; who has no regard for men of integrity, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma — perceives earth as earth. Perceiving earth as earth, he conceives [things] about earth, he conceives [things] in earth, he conceives [things] coming out of earth, he conceives earth as 'mine,' he delights in earth. Why is that? Because he has not comprehended it, I tell you.
MN1
One needs to "directly knows earth as earth":
The Trainee

"A monk who is a trainee — yearning for the unexcelled relief from bondage, his aspirations as yet unfulfilled — directly knows earth as earth. Directly knowing earth as earth, let him not conceive things about earth, let him not conceive things in earth, let him not conceive things coming out of earth, let him not conceive earth as 'mine,' let him not delight in earth. Why is that? So that he may comprehend it, I tell you.
MN1
And the list in MN#1 looks very similar to the one in Sandha sutta.

The danger that I see in over-focusing on ONE object or perception is that, IMHO, it promotes craving/clinging to that object.
"Should consciousness, when standing (still), stand attached to (a physical) form, supported by form (as its object), established on form, watered with delight, it would exhibit growth, increase, & proliferation. [alex: same for other 4 aggregates]
...
"If a monk abandons passion for the property of consciousness, then owing to the abandonment of passion, the support is cut off, and there is no base for consciousness. Consciousness, thus unestablished, not proliferating, not performing any function, is released. Owing to its release, it stands still. Owing to its stillness, it is contented. Owing to its contentment, it is not agitated. Not agitated, he (the monk) is totally unbound right within. He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'
SN22.55
Joe.c
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by Joe.c »

atipattoh wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:56 am Can you point out which part that I say, mind ceases in rupajhana? What I said was quite the opposite of your above assertion!

It seems you are over estimating your attainment? Be careful 😂
Ah… let me just point out.

Your below statement is a mistake.
atipattoh wrote:The samadhi in Sandha Sutta refer to saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ; “someone who has attained the cessation of perception and feeling, perception and feeling have ceased”.
The Sandha Sutta described Nirodha samapatti because one is still perceiving. An arahant free with wisdom or free both way is still perceiving after arahanthood.

Also, See Sariputta way to reach the state, just by hearing discourses from Buddha. Sariputta didn’t reach sannavedayitanirodha. Just look at MN 74.
MN 74 wrote:Now at that time Venerable Sāriputta was standing behind the Buddha fanning him.
Then he thought, “It seems the Buddha speaks of giving up and letting go all these things through direct knowledge.”
Reflecting like this, Venerable Sāriputta’s mind was freed from the defilements by not grasping.

One only needs 1st jhana to reach nirodha samapatti (see AN 9.36), no needs to reach sannavedayitanirodha. But it is better to go up there to confirm it of course, because it is easy for one who has reached 1st jhana (samma samadhi). Just let go everything until completely no desire, but you need to have supporting faculties.
AN 9.36 wrote:…The first jhana is a basis for ending the defilements.’ That’s what I said, but why did I say it?

Take a mendicant who, detached from sensual pleasures, detached from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first jhana. They contemplate the phenomena there—included in rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara, and vinnana—as impermanent, as suffering, as diseased, as a boil, as a dart, as misery, as an affliction, as alien, as falling apart, as empty, as not-self.

They turn their mind away from those things, and apply it to the deathless:

‘This is peaceful; this is sublime—that is, the stilling of all activities, the letting go of all attachments, the ending of craving, fading away, cessation, extinguishment.’

Abiding in that they attain the ending of defilements.

If they don’t attain the ending of defilements, with the ending of the five lower fetters they’re reborn spontaneously, because of their passion and love for that meditation. They are extinguished there, and are not liable to return from that world…
Note: translation might be off, but the understanding is there.

Good luck. Make sure you follow the proper steps in N8FP. Can’t skip the steps.
Last edited by Joe.c on Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
May you be relax, happy, comfortable and free of dukkhas from hearing true dhamma.
May you gain unshakable confidence in Buddha, Dhamma and (Ariya) Sangha.
Learn about Buddha/Dhamma Characters.
Joe.c
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by Joe.c »

NotMe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:34 am Everyone makes mistakes even the Buddha.
A puthujjana is possible.

But, A fully Awaken One/ Buddha can’t make any single mistake because whatever Awaken one acts, speaks, thinks is always right. His teaching is clear and concise without any defects.

Try to understand
vijjacaranasampanno
The above means “Who fully understood good behavior and living according to the knowledge”
May you be relax, happy, comfortable and free of dukkhas from hearing true dhamma.
May you gain unshakable confidence in Buddha, Dhamma and (Ariya) Sangha.
Learn about Buddha/Dhamma Characters.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Stop looking for a Method... it's already there.

Post by Ceisiwr »

Joe.c wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:43 am
NotMe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:34 am Everyone makes mistakes even the Buddha.
A puthujjana is possible.

But, A fully Awaken One/ Buddha can’t make any single mistake because whatever Awaken one acts, speaks, thinks is always right. His teaching is clear and concise without any defects.

Try to understand
vijjacaranasampanno
The above means “Who fully understood good behavior and living according to the knowledge”
The Buddha made mistakes. One of his mistakes lead to a number of monks killing themselves.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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