Blank slate vs. reborn

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
thepea
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by thepea »

Jack19990101 wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:00 am imo -
This appointed gender trend, is a reflection of human's dissatisfaction toward life.
We have the inkling that the identity is a restriction, making us lack.
We don't feel we can be fully ourselves.

Human tries all sorts of evolutions to liberate ourselves - the old way is to get rich. Later, getting high. or now, try to be what i can not be.
We keep trying something new.

All this, no matter how relentless, is merely to be happy.
Seems so.... the bottomless bucket ever trying to be filled. This is a war ground and it offers us what we need in order to hurdle our mental defilements “eventually”.

Traditions grip must be loosened or perhaps even let go of.
But..... we each do this when “we” are ready to. Force should not be used to take part in others fear or fantasies.

There is more to this when observing from a place of formality and a place of commonality. Free your mind and your ass will follow.
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Akashad
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by Akashad »

I have prebirth memories (PBE) and we choose our gender before we were born.

Gender is chosen BEFORE birth.

To have This existence you have to have first DREAMED of this existence.

When i say dream i mean something similar to intense imagery..like when you practice metta and you start seeing a clear image of a person...

Its like that TIMES 100,000.

Intense visualisation that you MERGE with.We call it DOWNLOAD cause most people with PBE arent buddhists.

After that merging.you BECOME that being and your born.

In buddhism i think its called a Gati Nimitta.

So some people see this imagery in a pool of water or in rays of sunlight...or outside a window in space,i saw it like in an old movie roll.It plays your future life and you latch on to it.or DOWNLOAD IT.

A lot of people don't remember because of the trance or hypnosis state people enter inbetween death but quite a few of us were aware.

Anyways just youtube PBE or prebirth memories.A lot of us remember choosing our parent's,mothers womb and gender as well as location.We were being rushed by these beings we call "guides"..not sure what they are possibly devas they really keep urging us to take rebirth..
I dont have a close relationship with these guides most people with PBE do i choose to ignore them i can feel them intervene many times but..i dont give it much thought.. they will turn up when im unconscious in hospital stuff like that.but their very careful not to be discerned.seem overly cautious about intervening not sure why.im not imagining these beings or tripping on drugs they will literally whisper among themselves what will occur the next day and it will happen..it very similar to an OBE.

They tell us stuff like that like they'll come and get us in x years lolol..

I really don know what going on but i chose my gender.i remember this part 1000%.You discuss with these guides..and they seem to know more..they will like advice you if its a bad idea and in some cases have the power to override your will..

I dont know why we can maintain awareness at this stage or choose our gender and parents and womb i really dont know but we all got very similar accounts and from the hubdreds of PBE clippings that ive gathered to not feel alone..gender is something we decide on BEFORE we even descend to earth.🙏

[media] [/media]

thepea
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by thepea »

Akashad wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:04 pm ....
IMO, you can partake in any fantasy you desire, all I’m saying is you can’t force others to play along with you.
Last edited by DNS on Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed long quoted post, no need to quote the entire post
KathyLauren
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by KathyLauren »

thepea wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:17 pm There is a lot of discussion with gender dysphoria lately. It seems the philosophy is you are not born with a specific gender but born a blank slate and gender is to be explored and chosen when ready and this can be a back and forth change as one passes through puberty and into an adult.

Wondering thoughts on this from a dhamma perspective and our past stock of sankharas(past life traumas). Do you think we are blanks entering the world or do we come in with past kamma to deal with?

I can 100% comprehend an individual coming into this world with a male body but having the personality of a female and finding difficulty with this. And of course vice versa.

Seems if we have a physical form that is intact a male formation creating sperm or a female with eggs, we have a healthy formation. The difficulty seems a mental(mind) issue. The medical industry seems focused on changing form to match mind vs observing things as they are and seeing the impermanent nature of this formation.
1. Does this contradict the teachings of kamma and rebirth?
2. Thoughts on medical interventions(hormone blockers) or surgery vs mind observation.

Seems
Sorry, I am late to the conversation, and I am not a Theravadin. And that this is my first post.

All the discussion in this thread is based on a misconception. It seems that the primary source of information on this subject has been popular mythology, rather than anything substantial.

With the exception of a few misguided (IMHO) activists, who may or may not have the best interests of trans people at heart, transgender people do not believe that the mind is a blank slate, nor do the medical and related professions that deal with trans people. The prevailing view is that one's gender identity is something we are born with. If you are born transgender, nothing you do will change that; if you are not born transgender, nothing you do can make you so. Transgender means that you are born with genitals of one gender and mental impressions of another.

As such, if is firmly in the realm of kamma/vipaka. The prevailing view (outside of popular mythology) is therefore not at all in conflict with the Dhamma.

Kathy
thepea
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by thepea »

KathyLauren wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:49 pm
thepea wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:17 pm There is a lot of discussion with gender dysphoria lately. It seems the philosophy is you are not born with a specific gender but born a blank slate and gender is to be explored and chosen when ready and this can be a back and forth change as one passes through puberty and into an adult.

Wondering thoughts on this from a dhamma perspective and our past stock of sankharas(past life traumas). Do you think we are blanks entering the world or do we come in with past kamma to deal with?

I can 100% comprehend an individual coming into this world with a male body but having the personality of a female and finding difficulty with this. And of course vice versa.

Seems if we have a physical form that is intact a male formation creating sperm or a female with eggs, we have a healthy formation. The difficulty seems a mental(mind) issue. The medical industry seems focused on changing form to match mind vs observing things as they are and seeing the impermanent nature of this formation.
1. Does this contradict the teachings of kamma and rebirth?
2. Thoughts on medical interventions(hormone blockers) or surgery vs mind observation.

Seems
Sorry, I am late to the conversation, and I am not a Theravadin. And that this is my first post.

All the discussion in this thread is based on a misconception. It seems that the primary source of information on this subject has been popular mythology, rather than anything substantial.

With the exception of a few misguided (IMHO) activists, who may or may not have the best interests of trans people at heart, transgender people do not believe that the mind is a blank slate, nor do the medical and related professions that deal with trans people. The prevailing view is that one's gender identity is something we are born with. If you are born transgender, nothing you do will change that; if you are not born transgender, nothing you do can make you so. Transgender means that you are born with genitals of one gender and mental impressions of another.

As such, if is firmly in the realm of kamma/vipaka. The prevailing view (outside of popular mythology) is therefore not at all in conflict with the Dhamma.

Kathy
I believe the transgenderism’s have been started by a dr years ago who theorized that a child is neither masculine of feminine by nature and that behaviour is taught.
He came across a family with twin boys who while circumcising them both had an accident where the genitals of one of the boys was cut off and horribly damaged.
The dr came into picture and the one boy was surgically altered and raised a girl. It didn’t work, they both ended up committing suicide.
This Drs failed study has been published as a success and is the basis for transgenderism today.
The one boy raised female did not identify or like female things and was a disaster. The hormone blockers messed him up permanently.
This was pretty clear that the boys masculine mannerisms were genetic and not learned.
This failed study is in alignment with dhamma.
Yes, there are people born with mental issues that do not match the physical. But according to dhamma this is what they asked for or needed for kamma.
Last edited by thepea on Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KathyLauren
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by KathyLauren »

thepea wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:14 pm I believe the transgenderism’s have been started by a dr years ago who theorized that a child is neither masculine of feminine by nature and that behaviour is taught.
He came across a family with twin boys who while circumcising them both had an accident where the genitals of one of the boys was cut off and horribly damaged.
The dr came into picture and the one boy was surgically altered and raised a girl. It didn’t work, they both ended up committing suicide.
This Drs failed study has been published as a success and is the basis for transgenderism today.
The one boy raised female did not identify or like female things and was a disaster. The hormone blockers messed him up permanently.
This was pretty clear that the boys masculine mannerisms were genetic and not learned.
This failed study is in alignment with dhamma.
Yes, there are people born with mental issues that do not match the physical. But according to dhamma this is what they asked for or needed for kamma.
You are talking about the David Reimer case. The story is essentially correct. The relevance of the case to transgenderism is that it proves that you cannot make someone transgender, and that gender identity is inherent at birth.

It is not the "basis of transgenderism". People have been transgender long before anyone heard of David Reimer (born 1965).

Kathy
thepea
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by thepea »

KathyLauren wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:24 am
thepea wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:14 pm I believe the transgenderism’s have been started by a dr years ago who theorized that a child is neither masculine of feminine by nature and that behaviour is taught.
He came across a family with twin boys who while circumcising them both had an accident where the genitals of one of the boys was cut off and horribly damaged.
The dr came into picture and the one boy was surgically altered and raised a girl. It didn’t work, they both ended up committing suicide.
This Drs failed study has been published as a success and is the basis for transgenderism today.
The one boy raised female did not identify or like female things and was a disaster. The hormone blockers messed him up permanently.
This was pretty clear that the boys masculine mannerisms were genetic and not learned.
This failed study is in alignment with dhamma.
Yes, there are people born with mental issues that do not match the physical. But according to dhamma this is what they asked for or needed for kamma.
You are talking about the David Reimer case. The story is essentially correct. The relevance of the case to transgenderism is that it proves that you cannot make someone transgender, and that gender identity is inherent at birth.

It is not the "basis of transgenderism". People have been transgender long before anyone heard of David Reimer (born 1965).

Kathy
Yes, I’m not arguing against that. But more the empty vessel ideology.
santa100
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by santa100 »

KathyLauren wrote:The relevance of the case to transgenderism is that it proves that you cannot make someone transgender, and that gender identity is inherent at birth.
Sure, but like all other conditioned phenomena in life, gender identity is also subjected to Impermanence/Anicca.
asahi
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by asahi »

In either case , does buddhism take such phenomena as kamma vipaka ? How would the Buddha deal with such case if being presented to Him ?
No bashing No gossiping
santa100
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by santa100 »

asahi wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:47 am In either case , does buddhism take such phenomena as kamma vipaka ? How would the Buddha deal with such case if being presented to Him ?
Oh, it was much more straightforward for the Buddha 2,500 years ago. There was no transition surgery, no puberty blocker drugs, no expensive psycho-analysis/consultation by psychologists,... nothing. So one just have to find a tree to sit under and start meditating on Anicca/Anatta/Dukkha. And if one grows out of it, great; if not, well, meditate some more.
asahi
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by asahi »

santa100 wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:51 am Oh, it was much more straightforward for the Buddha 2,500 years ago. There was no transition surgery, no puberty blocker drugs, no expensive psycho-analysis/consultation by psychologists,... nothing. So one just have to find a tree to sit under and start meditating on Anicca/Anatta/Dukkha. And if one grows out of it, great; if not, well, meditate some more.
But Buddha restricted men and women to ordain in His Orders .
No bashing No gossiping
santa100
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by santa100 »

asahi wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:01 am But Buddha restricted men and women to ordain in His Orders .
But if you come to the Buddha and show him your suffering, He won't turn you away.
asahi
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by asahi »

santa100 wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:03 am But if you come to the Buddha and show him your suffering, He won't turn you away.
Well , seems although these peoples are in suffering , they want to do transition surgery first or after equality then they will enter into the Order .
No bashing No gossiping
thepea
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by thepea »

asahi wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:14 am
santa100 wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:03 am But if you come to the Buddha and show him your suffering, He won't turn you away.
Well , seems although these peoples are in suffering , they want to do transition surgery first or after equality then they will enter into the Order .
Transition surgery is body mutilation, it breach’s first precept. You can do it, the earth will not implode, but it is mutilation and serves no dhammic healing purpose other than to show the individual this form is unsatisfactory, It is not a cure.
KathyLauren
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Re: Blank slate vs. reborn

Post by KathyLauren »

thepea wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:15 am Yes, I’m not arguing against that. But more the empty vessel ideology.
I understand that. My point was that no one actually believes that "empty vessel" ideology. Not transgender people and certainly not the professionals who treat them. They all know that those mental imprints were formed before birth. So it is a straw man argument, like arguing against legs on a snake.

Kathy
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