Blank slate vs. reborn

[thepea]

There is a lot of discussion with gender dysphoria lately. It seems the philosophy is you are not born with a specific gender but born a blank slate and gender is to be explored and chosen when ready and this can be a back and forth change as one passes through puberty and into an adult.

Wondering thoughts on this from a dhamma perspective and our past stock of sankharas(past life traumas). Do you think we are blanks entering the world or do we come in with past kamma to deal with?

I can 100% comprehend an individual coming into this world with a male body but having the personality of a female and finding difficulty with this. And of course vice versa.

Seems if we have a physical form that is intact a male formation creating sperm or a female with eggs, we have a healthy formation. The difficulty seems a mental(mind) issue. The medical industry seems focused on changing form to match mind vs observing things as they are and seeing the impermanent nature of this formation.
1. Does this contradict the teachings of kamma and rebirth?
2. Thoughts on medical interventions(hormone blockers) or surgery vs mind observation.

Seems

[NotMe]

OP: 1. Does this contradict the teachings of kamma and rebirth?

Consistent with his teachings as best as I can be:

No. If you believe yourself not well, go to a doctor, they have a cure, you take it. No harm no foul.

2. Thoughts on medical interventions(hormone blockers) or surgery vs mind observation.

medical interventions are between dr/patient. ditto Surgery. How can mind observation be an issue? <grin>

Metta

[dharmacorps]

Given the teachings on kamma, there is no such thing as anybody with a "blank slate". So, the question is grasping the teachings incorrectly.

[thepea]

Given the teachings on kamma, there is no such thing as anybody with a "blank slate". So, the question is grasping the teachings incorrectly.

I suppose the way it’s being presented is we are born and we are empty vessels and we are a product of our environment. If twin boys were born and one was changed to look like a girl and treated like a girl, the individual would simply accept the identity of a female.
Where as the kamma of rebirth would suggest this consciousness with unfinished business at death would latch into a formation of similar vibration to finish the job.
The possibility of a blank slate or empty vessel being born is the question.

[thepea]

OP: 1. Does this contradict the teachings of kamma and rebirth?

Consistent with his teachings as best as I can be:

No. If you believe yourself not well, go to a doctor, they have a cure, you take it. No harm no foul.

2. Thoughts on medical interventions(hormone blockers) or surgery vs mind observation.

medical interventions are between dr/patient. ditto Surgery. How can mind observation be an issue? <grin>

Metta

1. So you feel an individual can be born into this human form without any previous past life regression and is simply an empty vessel or blank slate? And all disfunction is taught and not deeply rooted?

2. Yes dr patient confidentiality is not really the concern, I’m asking if the solution is to change the form to fit the mind. Is this the dhamma teachings of buddha?

[NotMe]

1. So you feel an individual can be born into this human form without any previous past life regression and is simply an empty vessel or blank slate? And all disfunction is taught and not deeply rooted?

2. Yes dr patient confidentiality is not really the concern, I’m asking if the solution is to change the form to fit the mind. Is this the dhamma teachings of buddha?

1) I need to communicate better obviously because that was not my intention.

Analogy? We are born. And whether we have arrows stuck in us from past life at that time or not, once we reach an age of being able to find arrows. and remove them, we need not worry who's bow they came from. Remove arrows, the cause and bingo! Who cares they are gone!

I am a simple man I hope this explains one viewpoint.

2) Not that I know of, ask others with a broader view of the teachings, mine did not require I learn this aspect of the Dhamma.

Great questions tho, thank you very much for posting and asking for clarity. I hope this helps!

Metta

[Pondera]

I think it’s worth mentioning that when asked if he was a human, the Buddha replied, “No. I am not a human. I am not a deva, a yakkha, or a human. You may know me as “awakened”.”

I’m my own personal experience, I know the body in the mirror is “male”. My inner experience has never identified as male, female, gay, hetero - just “here; now”.

[NotMe]

I believe the mind controls the body first and foremost. The Buddha instructs us so, so be it.

Figuring out how another individuals Kamma works is not in the domain of questions I ask.

edit: come on Lee - The mind precedes, conditions all phenomena, all experience.

[NotMe]

I think it’s worth mentioning that when asked if he was a human, the Buddha replied, “No. I am not a human. I am not a deva, a yakkha, or a human. You may know me as “awakened”.”

I’m my own personal experience, I know the body in the mirror is “male”. My inner experience has never identified as male, female, gay, hetero - just “here; now”.

[thepea]

I believe the mind controls the body first and foremost. The Buddha instructs us so, so be it.

Dependent origination would back this up, thoughts producing formations(bodily sensations) and our reactivity towards these keeps the cycle going.

It seems logical that mind would have a great deal to do with the formation when born.
Babies born with defects missing limbs etc... can be linked to kamma teachings.

I think the blank slate would be the arahant in some sense but then the teachings are pretty clear the arahant is not reborn.

[thepea]

I think it’s worth mentioning that when asked if he was a human, the Buddha replied, “No. I am not a human. I am not a deva, a yakkha, or a human. You may know me as “awakened”.”

I’m my own personal experience, I know the body in the mirror is “male”. My inner experience has never identified as male, female, gay, hetero - just “here; now”.

Yes, in an ultimate reality type view, but apparently he was a man of the human species.

Certainly your body has sex as male and it may function and be able to create sperm for procreation, and the mind can exist in many realities and identities. But are you empty of past traumas? I’m going to assume not as you don’t ever seem to identify as arahant. But if you are and that would be great, were you born empty and awake?

[santa100]

Wondering thoughts on this from a dhamma perspective and our past stock of sankharas(past life traumas). Do you think we are blanks entering the world or do we come in with past kamma to deal with?

The answer depends on where one is on the Path. It'd take a significant level of cultivation/training to penetrate the truth of Anicca/Anatta/Dukkha, hence allowing one to maintain equanimity (or "blanks state" in your expression) in the face of whatever negative Kamma one was and has been born with. But a regular run-of-the-mill individual who's not cultivated the Dhamma to a decent enough degree would always has a sense of self-identity, whether straight, homo, bi, trans, perception of male while possessing a female body, perception of female in a male body, or whatever shades within that vast LGBTQ spectrum. So with that in mind, regarding question 1., the teachings of kamma and rebirth will always hold true, it's just that depending on different level of awakening that the individual would find it to be contradictory or not. Similarly for question 2. for someone who's already penetrated the Three Marks of Existence truth, there'd be no need for any medical interventions, but for a regular run-of-the-mill who's never had any prior exposure to the Great Teaching, there'll be cases where medical interventions could help alleviate the existing suffering that individual's currently going thru.

[Pondera]

I think it’s worth mentioning that when asked if he was a human, the Buddha replied, “No. I am not a human. I am not a deva, a yakkha, or a human. You may know me as “awakened”.”

I’m my own personal experience, I know the body in the mirror is “male”. My inner experience has never identified as male, female, gay, hetero - just “here; now”.

Yes, in an ultimate reality type view, but apparently he was a man of the human species.

Certainly your body has sex as male and it may function and be able to create sperm for procreation, and the mind can exist in many realities and identities. But are you empty of past traumas? I’m going to assume not as you don’t ever seem to identify as arahant. But if you are and that would be great, were you born empty and awake?

I have many past traumas ranging from childhood, to adolescence, to adulthood. I am certainly not an Arahant.

I was not born empty and awake. But at a very young age I formed my first memory. I was in my crib (less than two years old) and I noticed the shapes on the mobile above me. The yellow giraffe stood out. I recall being curious. Knowing.

To be honest, I’ve always felt a loneliness in my life and I’ve developed a personality around that loneliness.

[Joe.c]

There is a lot of discussion with gender dysphoria lately. It seems the philosophy is you are not born with a specific gender but born a blank slate and gender is to be explored and chosen when ready and this can be a back and forth change as one passes through puberty and into an adult.

This is inacurrate. One with tendencies toward certain behavior (in past) will gear towards or attach to that behavior even more (presently or future).

If one has cultivated the certain gender behavior in the past, usually it will stick to that. But one can abandon that tendencies by cultivating another set of behaviors to counter/abandon the previous behaviors.

In short, one who choose to be a LGBT or gay or lesbian or others, usually one has cultivated that set of behaviors in their past life. This behavior stuck to the person.

But if one hear true dhamma, one can abandon this unskillful behavior. Just look at DN 21 where a women lay follower who become a male god at Tavatimsa heaven.

Right here in Kapilavatthu there was a Sakyan lady named Gopikā who had confidence in the Buddha, the teaching, and the Saṅgha, and had fulfilled her ethics.

Losing her attachment to femininity, she developed masculinity. When her body broke up, after death, she was reborn in a good place, a heavenly realm.

In the company of the gods of the Thirty-Three she became one of my sons.

There they knew him as

the god Gopaka

If one still stuck with male/female/gay/lesbian identity unfortunately, one will stuck in sensual realm (aka kama loka) for a long time. There is no way to raise above/transcend to Brahma world. Same as understanding Buddha teaching, one needs to transcend the identity and sensual realm.

There is no need to use any medical intervention. By changing the behavior, the body will automatically adjust to new set of skills.

But not easy for puthujjana without understanding true dhamma.

[NotMe]

I would love to learn of the seven year itch sotapannas experience. Rebirthed that last time. How clean the slate?

Seems to me blank slates would be *at least* once returners - not earth reborners. <grin>

Idle chatter?

Metta