is Nibbāna permanent?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Gami47
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is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by Gami47 »

:reading:
asahi
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by asahi »

Before coming to your question , perhaps first you should be asking : what is nibbana ?
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SteRo
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by SteRo »

Gami47 wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:36 pm:reading:
As an achievement: Since according to doctrine it has a beginning "permanent" does not apply.
As an ultimate reality that is cognized at the end of the path: yes.
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Jack19990101
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by Jack19990101 »

Accurately speaking, it is irreversible.

To our intellectual mind, it is aka permanent.
like we say a blow to the mirror, the damage is permanent.
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cappuccino
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by cappuccino »

SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:00 pm Since according to doctrine it has a beginning "permanent" does not apply.
wrong, but you don’t care if you’re right
Jack19990101
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by Jack19990101 »

It doesn't matter much at all for liberation.
As long as we are not there, it can rain fire from sky, spew acid from ground.
or it can be permanent.
I am sure it won't be a bother.
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cappuccino
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by cappuccino »

Jack19990101 wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:34 pm As long as we are not there, it can rain fire from sky, spew acid from ground.
not there?


that's how it will feel
santa100
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by santa100 »

Gami47 wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:36 pmis Nibbāna permanent?
Once one has attained it, the permanent/impermanent duality simply runs out of scope.
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cappuccino
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by cappuccino »

It is the Unformed, the Unconditioned, the End,
the Truth, the Other Shore, the Subtle,
the Everlasting, the Invisible, the Undiversified,
Peace, the Deathless, the Blest, Safety,
the Wonderful, the Marvellous,
Nibbæna, Purity, Freedom,
the Island,
the Refuge, the Beyond.
~ S 43.1-44
SteRo
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by SteRo »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:26 pm
SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:00 pm Since according to doctrine it has a beginning "permanent" does not apply.
wrong, but you don’t care if you’re right
First: what I've said is that there are two perspectives. Both perspectives are expounded by doctrine although I've mentioned "doctrine" explicitly only in context of the first perspective:
SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:00 pm As an achievement: Since according to doctrine it has a beginning "permanent" does not apply.
As an ultimate reality that is cognized at the end of the path: yes.
Second: I don't care whether what I express correponds with your personal belief because my scientific interest is focused on the doctrine not on individuals' beliefs.
Last edited by SteRo on Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cappuccino
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by cappuccino »

SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:48 pm I don't care if what I express corresponds with your personal belief.
I don’t have a personal belief
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by SteRo »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:50 pm
SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:48 pm I don't care if what I express corresponds with your personal belief.
I don’t have a personal belief
Call your belief whatever you like, it is your belief. What is evident however is the doctrine because it is written down.
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cappuccino
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by cappuccino »

SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:54 pm What is evident however is the doctrine
the Everlasting… the Deathless… Safety,
Nirvana…
~ S 43.1-44
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by SteRo »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:55 pm
SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:54 pm What is evident however is the doctrine
the Everlasting… the Deathless… Safety,
Nirvana…
~ S 43.1-44
That may refer to that which is cognized. Nevertheless there are numerous accounts of nibbana as achievement at the end of the path and since this achievement has a beginning "permanent" does not apply.
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cappuccino
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Re: is Nibbāna permanent?

Post by cappuccino »

SteRo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:02 pm since this achievement has a beginning "permanent" does not apply.
You still think so
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