First precept

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Sam Vara
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Re: First precept

Post by Sam Vara »

cappuccino wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:13 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:11 pm So what's that got to do with all religions "teaching heaven"?
I was saying… Buddhism is likely to lead to heaven


Rather than the hell he was threatening
Yes, that's my understanding. Joe.c's response was that it cannot lead to heaven, because other religions teach heaven. That's clearly a non-starter in terms of logic. So clearly, in fact, that he then claimed that he was referring to a different statement you made. I've asked him to cite that statement so we can see which is more likely. Was he referring to the statement from you he had just quoted, and which is also about heaven....or was he referring to a completely different elsewhere in the thread?
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cappuccino
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Re: First precept

Post by cappuccino »

Sam Vara wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:26 pm Was he referring to the statement from you he had just quoted?
He meant you should realize I have wrong view


I do not, but I am controversial
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Deadelectronics
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Re: First precept

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KathyLauren wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:28 pm
thepea wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:39 pm That’s the part that goes against the dhamma.
No.

The Dhamma is all about reducing suffering. (See the Four Noble Truths.) If it wasn't about reducing suffering, Dhamma would be nonsense and the Buddha would be nobody. Reducing suffering is everything.

People transition to reduce their suffering. The medical professions assist them because they are dedicated to reducing suffering. To say that this goes against Dhamma is to profoundly misunderstand the most basic teachings.

Kathy
A number of them have been lied to though. They dont get told the complications that can happen. Theres a reason why detrans is a legit thing. Reaffirmation surgery is just craving.
Joy at last to know there is no happiness in the world!
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Re: First precept

Post by KathyLauren »

Deadelectronics wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:12 am
A number of them have been lied to though. They dont get told the complications that can happen. Theres a reason why detrans is a legit thing. Reaffirmation surgery is just craving.
Very, very few are lied to. Even when they short-cut the normal counseling, the minimum standard is informed consent. The "informed" part of informed consent includes discussion of complications. Nobody short-cuts that. They may choose not to listen, and to say, "Shut up. Just show me where to sign," but in all cases they will have signed a document discussing the possible complications.

There is, of course, some desire involved with any transition surgery. But it is mostly a desire to stop lying about who one is.

Kathy
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Deadelectronics
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Re: First precept

Post by Deadelectronics »

KathyLauren wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:34 pm
Deadelectronics wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:12 am
A number of them have been lied to though. They dont get told the complications that can happen. Theres a reason why detrans is a legit thing. Reaffirmation surgery is just craving.
Very, very few are lied to. Even when they short-cut the normal counseling, the minimum standard is informed consent. The "informed" part of informed consent includes discussion of complications. Nobody short-cuts that. They may choose not to listen, and to say, "Shut up. Just show me where to sign," but in all cases they will have signed a document discussing the possible complications.

There is, of course, some desire involved with any transition surgery. But it is mostly a desire to stop lying about who one is.

Kathy
Those very few will become an average in the coming years. Same reason why the rate of self-deletion hasn't slowed down in the community despite all the love bombing.
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Re: First precept

Post by KathyLauren »

Deadelectronics wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:12 am Theres a reason why detrans is a legit thing.
The number of de-transitioners is small. The majority of them do not de-transition out of regret, but to placate hostile family, friends, and employers. Most often, they regret de-transitioning, and eventually re-transition.

The number of people who truly regret transitioning is even smaller. It is unfortunate that they exist, and measures are in place to ensure that the numbers remain small. Still, there will always be those who refuse to listen to caution and who refuse to read the fine print. They are unfortunate, but unavoidable. There is no conceivable justification for withholding treatment for the majority just to protect a tiny minority from themselves.
Deadelectronics wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:11 am Those very few will become an average in the coming years.
There is no reason to think so.

Kathy
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Sam Vara
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Re: First precept

Post by Sam Vara »

Can anyone remind me what the first precept is about? Despite DNS apparently dealing with this in the second post, we are still talking about transition surgery.

Back to topic regarding the precept, please! :focus:
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Re: First precept

Post by cappuccino »

Perhaps you kill … who you don’t want to be


Hence you should accept yourself


You should also not kill unwanted children
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