First precept

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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cappuccino
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Re: First precept

Post by cappuccino »

DNS wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:14 am
thepea wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:03 am A layman sotapanna can kill, I assure you of this.
Just curious, according to your view, when does the killing stop? Surely, for an arahant they don't kill.
Arhat won’t kill insects


Lesser arhat might
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

DNS wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:14 am
thepea wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:03 am A layman sotapanna can kill, I assure you of this.
Just curious, according to your view, when does the killing stop? Surely, for an arahant they don't kill. What about sakadagamis, anagamis? Do they kill too (according to your view)?
Arahants kill, they just don’t kill with intent.

Sotapannas and sakadagamis can kill with intent, as they are not masters of jhanas.
The anagamis and arahants have mastery of jhanas and IMO would be leading lives of greater seclusion and would be protected from mundane responsibilities.
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cappuccino
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Re: First precept

Post by cappuccino »

I think it’s due to relative purity


The arhat is too pure
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Re: First precept

Post by Joe.c »

thepea wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:03 am ...
According to you, no different between puthujjana and Ariya. Which is totally wrong view!

Have you check with Yama that you are not in the hell (lower realm) list instead? 😅
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Joe.c
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Re: First precept

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cappuccino wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:45 am I think it’s due to relative purity


The arhat is too pure
Totally Bull as well. One who has seen Nibbana will never break 7 ariyan precepts in N8FP. It is impossible.

If you have this wrong view, lower realm is the destination for sure.
Last edited by Joe.c on Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bpallister
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Re: First precept

Post by bpallister »

i almost killed an ant yesterday trying to get him off me.
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Re: First precept

Post by bpallister »

i consider myself a lesser arahant. WAY LESSER :hello:
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cappuccino
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Re: First precept

Post by cappuccino »

Joe.c wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:15 am One who has seen Nibbana will never break … precepts … It is impossible.
Let us know if you find out different
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Re: First precept

Post by Joe.c »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:17 am
Joe.c wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:15 am One who has seen Nibbana will never break … precepts … It is impossible.
Let us know if you find out different
Yeah you have the wrong view.

The 8 nobles can't kill with intention even small insects. So not only an arahant.
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Re: First precept

Post by cappuccino »

Joe.c wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:20 am The 8 nobles can't kill with intention even small insects.
This is too idealistic
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

Joe.c wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:14 am
thepea wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:03 am ...
According to you, no different between puthujjana and Ariya. Which is totally wrong view!

Have you check with Yama that you are not in the hell (lower realm) list instead? 😅
I’m not sure how a puthujjana has passed through the stages of insight?
Why don’t you explain this.
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Re: First precept

Post by Joe.c »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:23 am This is too idealistic
This is to be Noble.

Even a small kill will land you on lower realms. That is just impossible for Noble who has attained the right view.

The Ariyan precepts maintain for 24/7 unbroken.
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Re: First precept

Post by cappuccino »

Joe.c wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:28 am Even a small kill will land you on lower realms.
… it may make you sick
Last edited by cappuccino on Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
thepea
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

Joe.c wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:28 am
cappuccino wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:23 am This is too idealistic
This is to be Noble.

Even a small kill will land you on lower realms. That is just impossible for Noble who has attained the right view.

The Ariyan precepts maintain for 24/7 unbroken.
I agree with Cap, a sotapanna is not an arahant, you are putting the sotas wisdoms on par with an arahant.
There is fear in the sotas mind, this will lead to breaches in precepts.
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Re: First precept

Post by Joe.c »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:28 am
Joe.c wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:28 am Even a small kill will land you on lower realms.
no… it may make you sick
Lol. I'm done with a fool.

Keep holding on your wrong view, you will go lower realm for sure.
May you be relax, happy, comfortable and free of dukkhas from hearing true dhamma.
May you gain unshakable confidence in Buddha, Dhamma and (Ariya) Sangha.
Learn about Buddha/Dhamma Characters.
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