First precept

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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thepea
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First precept

Post by thepea »

Mutilation definition: an act or instance of destroying, removing, or severely damaging a limb or other body part of a person or animal.

Is transition surgery or using puberty blockers a breach of first precept?
Think children and parent responsibility.
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DNS
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Re: First precept

Post by DNS »

thepea wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:35 pm Mutilation definition: an act or instance of destroying, removing, or severely damaging a limb or other body part of a person or animal.

Is transition surgery or using puberty blockers a breach of first precept?
Think children and parent responsibility.
No, transition surgery is not about killing. The First Precept is about not killing any sentient being (humans, animals, fish, etc).
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NotMe
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Re: First precept

Post by NotMe »

thepea wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:35 pm Mutilation definition: an act or instance of destroying, removing, or severely damaging a limb or other body part of a person or animal.

Is transition surgery or using puberty blockers a breach of first precept?
Think children and parent responsibility.
What is the first precept?

Metta

:anjali:

edit: David stated it. Thanks, kinda wanted to hear thepea respond.

edit to remove: Why am I here? Why is this here?
thepea
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

DNS wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:39 pm
thepea wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:35 pm Mutilation definition: an act or instance of destroying, removing, or severely damaging a limb or other body part of a person or animal.

Is transition surgery or using puberty blockers a breach of first precept?
Think children and parent responsibility.
No, transition surgery is not about killing. The First Precept is about not killing any sentient being (humans, animals, fish, etc).
So if I fish, catch and release style this is ok?
Or if I catch animals and mutilate them by removing limbs and stitching them back up, it’s ok?
thepea
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

NotMe wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:40 pm
thepea wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:35 pm Mutilation definition: an act or instance of destroying, removing, or severely damaging a limb or other body part of a person or animal.

Is transition surgery or using puberty blockers a breach of first precept?
Think children and parent responsibility.
What is the first precept?

Metta

:anjali:

edit: David stated it. Thanks, kinda wanted to hear thepea respond.

edit to remove: Why am I here? Why is this here?
The first of the five precepts is "Avoid killing, or harming any living thing."
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DNS
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Re: First precept

Post by DNS »

thepea wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:00 pm
DNS wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:39 pm
thepea wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:35 pm Mutilation definition: an act or instance of destroying, removing, or severely damaging a limb or other body part of a person or animal.

Is transition surgery or using puberty blockers a breach of first precept?
Think children and parent responsibility.
No, transition surgery is not about killing. The First Precept is about not killing any sentient being (humans, animals, fish, etc).
So if I fish, catch and release style this is ok?
Or if I catch animals and mutilate them by removing limbs and stitching them back up, it’s ok?
No, not good, unwholesome, but that is not comparable to a person who voluntarily chooses to do gender transition.
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NotMe
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Re: First precept

Post by NotMe »

thepea wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:00 pm So if I fish, catch and release style this is ok?
With your bare hands - you betcha but why? Hooks hurt. Baaaaaaaàaáâäãåaddddddd karma.
thepea wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:00 pm Or if I catch animals and mutilate them by removing limbs and stitching them back up, it’s ok?
If they need help and you are a qualified vet/dr - sure. Long term gain for short term pain. Other wise you need locking up IM not so HO.

:toilet:
thepea
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

DNS wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:35 pm
thepea wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:00 pm
DNS wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:39 pm

No, transition surgery is not about killing. The First Precept is about not killing any sentient being (humans, animals, fish, etc).
So if I fish, catch and release style this is ok?
Or if I catch animals and mutilate them by removing limbs and stitching them back up, it’s ok?
No, not good, unwholesome, but that is not comparable to a person who voluntarily chooses to do gender transition.
So then what is the difference piercing a fish mouth with a hook, and carving a 13 yr olds bicep to create a penis. Mutalated for life.
Or giving a 13 yr old hormone blockers so he/she is stunted for life.
This is wholesome but fishing is unwholesome?
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DNS
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Re: First precept

Post by DNS »

thepea wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:15 am So then what is the difference piercing a fish mouth with a hook, and carving a 13 yr olds bicep to create a penis. Mutalated for life.
Or giving a 13 yr old hormone blockers so he/she is stunted for life.
This is wholesome but fishing is unwholesome?
Fishing is always unwholesome, because it is killing.

Gender transition is another matter and as long as there is no coercion, then it is not wholesome or unwholesome, just neutral.
thepea
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

NotMe wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:37 pm
thepea wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:00 pm So if I fish, catch and release style this is ok?
With your bare hands - you betcha but why? Hooks hurt. Baaaaaaaàaáâäãåaddddddd karma.
thepea wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:00 pm Or if I catch animals and mutilate them by removing limbs and stitching them back up, it’s ok?
If they need help and you are a qualified vet/dr - sure. Long term gain for short term pain. Other wise you need locking up IM not so HO.

:toilet:
I was looking for a deeper explanation of the first precept.
If it is merely avoid killing, then fishing catch and release is not a breach.
thepea
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

DNS wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:21 am
thepea wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:15 am So then what is the difference piercing a fish mouth with a hook, and carving a 13 yr olds bicep to create a penis. Mutalated for life.
Or giving a 13 yr old hormone blockers so he/she is stunted for life.
This is wholesome but fishing is unwholesome?
Fishing is always unwholesome, because it is killing.

Gender transition is another matter and as long as there is no coercion, then it is not wholesome or unwholesome, just neutral.
Catch and release is not killing.

Is it coercion telling a little boy that likes pink that he may be a girl and he may be confused and let’s just pause your puberty until you can figure it out?
This is coercion, isn’t it?
Last edited by thepea on Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DNS
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Re: First precept

Post by DNS »

thepea wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:22 am Catch and release is not killing.
Correct, as long as it doesn't harm them. But according to your previous posts on this matter, you don't release them and in fact kill them.
Is it coercion telling a little boy that likes pink that he may be a girl and he may be confused and let’s just pause your puberty until you can figure it out?
This is coercion, isn’t it?
We'd need much more information than a one sentence description and it wouldn't be for me to decide anyway. That's a matter for the individual family to discuss.
thepea
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

DNS wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:30 am
thepea wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:22 am Catch and release is not killing.
Correct, as long as it doesn't harm them. But according to your previous posts on this matter, you don't release them and in fact kill them.
Is it coercion telling a little boy that likes pink that he may be a girl and he may be confused and let’s just pause your puberty until you can figure it out?
This is coercion, isn’t it?
We'd need much more information than a one sentence description and it wouldn't be for me to decide anyway. That's a matter for the individual family to discuss.
Well now hold on. Your first precept didn’t mention harm. It only mentioned killing.
What is it?
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Re: First precept

Post by DNS »

thepea wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:38 am Well now hold on. Your first precept didn’t mention harm. It only mentioned killing.
What is it?
I said it would be unwholesome to cause harm to a sentient being, not that it is against the First Precept. (It might be though, not sure, actually.)

See this post, with your post and my response. I said unwholesome.
viewtopic.php?p=682087#p682087

relevant parts of those posts:
DNS wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:35 pm
thepea wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:00 pm So if I fish, catch and release style this is ok?
Or if I catch animals and mutilate them by removing limbs and stitching them back up, it’s ok?
No, not good, unwholesome, but that is not comparable to a person who voluntarily chooses to do gender transition.
thepea
Posts: 4047
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

DNS wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:41 am
thepea wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:38 am Well now hold on. Your first precept didn’t mention harm. It only mentioned killing.
What is it?
I said it would be unwholesome to cause harm to a sentient being, not that it is against the First Precept. (It might be though, not sure, actually.)

See this post, with your post and my response. I said unwholesome.
viewtopic.php?p=682087#p682087
Personally I can’t see fishing and deep meditation going hand in hand.
Yes, I fish for the meat(food) as I am in norther climate and growing season is short. As I’m not a monastic and a layman I must provide for my family and support others in community.
But as stated when retreating inward I do not
fish.

What do you think of the British Columbia man who was jailed and given $30000.00 fine for calling his daughter she in court where he was trying to stop his wife and the dr from putting her on puberty blockers?
Is this consent when offspring is minor?
Legal harm?
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