First precept

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Joe.c
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Re: First precept

Post by Joe.c »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:20 pm
Joe.c wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:53 pm … one needs to have good morality to know heavens.
Good morality is not perfect morality
Good morality can’t go higher than 4 great king deva realm. Perfect morality with some mind development (wisdom) can go higher than that.

Btw, good morality needs to be practice 24/7 until it become automatic. Do you know that?
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Sam Vara
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Re: First precept

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Joe.c wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:15 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:11 pm His statement is still correct, regardless of what other religions teach.
Nope. I said incorrect with his below view.
Cap wrote:Even a small kill will … it may make you sick
A small kill will land you in lower realm.

Btw, Have you seen any buddhist leads to heaven? Most buddhists nowadays gone to lower realms. Do you know that?
That's not what you said at all. You mentioned nothing about that view, and even if you had, cap's statement is still correct.

He said "Buddhism leads to heavenly realms". I take that to mean that the practice of the Dhamma can take one to heaven.

You said, in direct response, "Actually all religions teach heaven. So your statement is not correct as well."

That can only mean that his statement "Buddhism leads to heavenly realms" is not true because all religions teach [about] heaven.

That's an invalid inference, because if cap's statement is true, then it remains true regardless of the teachings of other religions.
Btw, Have you seen any buddhist leads to heaven? Most buddhists nowadays gone to lower realms. Do you know that?
I didn't, thanks. Sutta or video evidence would be appreciated, if you have it.
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cappuccino
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Re: First precept

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Joe.c wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:18 pm Btw, good morality needs to be practice 24/7 until it become automatic. Do you know that?
Morality is not perfect until the final stage
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cappuccino
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Re: First precept

Post by cappuccino »

Joe.c wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:15 pm A small kill will land you in lower realm.
There is the case where a trifling evil deed done by a certain individual takes him to hell. There is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by another individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.


Lonaphala Sutta: The Salt Crystal
Joe.c
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Re: First precept

Post by Joe.c »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:45 pm There is the case where a trifling evil deed done by a certain individual takes him to hell. There is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by another individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.


Lonaphala Sutta: The Salt Crystal
Lol. Quoting AN 3.99 without knowing why Buddha said it.

What i refer is different context from what Buddha implied on AN 3.99.

Problem is you have a wrong view. You said killing will not lead to lower realm, but indeed it will.

AN 3.99 is describing about how one walk the path (has entered the stream) will not experience the past deed similarly to others who is not on the path yet. So one who has developed physical endurance, ethics, mind, or wisdom is not the same as others who has not developed.

Anyway, i’m done with you. Just wait till Yama come and explain, then next time you will understand hopefully.
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cappuccino
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Re: First precept

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Joe.c wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:47 am Anyway, i’m done with you.
Good
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Re: First precept

Post by cappuccino »

thepea wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:21 am Worrying about animals being harmed…
The animal could be someone you knew


Insects not likely so
Last edited by cappuccino on Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
thepea
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Re: First precept

Post by thepea »

cappuccino wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:55 am
thepea wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:21 am Worrying about animals being harmed…
The animal could be someone you knew


Because of Samsara it is likely


Then again that person was a jerk perhaps
It only matters what you think of the animal. If you don’t think then it doesn’t materialize.
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Re: First precept

Post by Joe.c »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:42 pm ...
Please read what Cap's said on the post before.

Don't just want to jump in without knowing it.

How can one who has wrong view know heavens? It is impossible. 😅
I didn't, thanks. Sutta or video evidence would be appreciated, if you have it.
Go develop your faculties, maybe you will be able to know. If not, ask someone who know.

There is no video that can see that LOL. Currect tech is too primitive. 😅😁

Good luck.
Last edited by Joe.c on Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
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cappuccino
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Re: First precept

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thepea wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:23 am It only matters what you think of the animal.
Everyone has their issues


Things we can’t easily transcend
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Sam Vara
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Re: First precept

Post by Sam Vara »

Joe.c wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:33 am
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:42 pm ...
Please read what Cap's said on the post before.

Don't just want to jump in without knowing it.
Which post before? You quoted cap saying "Buddhism leads to heavenly realms", and then said "Actually all religions teach heaven. So your statement is not correct as well".

Normally, if we quote someone and then immediately refer to "your statement", we mean the statement just quoted. Especially if both are about the same topic: heaven/heavenly realms.

But you are claiming that you were in fact referring to an earlier statement of cap's. Perhaps the one "...it may make you sick"? If not, which one? Please specify exactly which statement of cap's you were referring to when you said "your statement is not correct as well".
Go develop your faculties, maybe you will be able to know. If not, ask someone who know.


I'm trying to develop my faculties, but apparently it's a slow business. You claim to know, though. So I'm asking you. How do you know that most Buddhists go to the lower realms?
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Re: First precept

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Sam Vara wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:58 am Which post before?
I say killing insects is realistic


He said is certain doom


To which I said… not certain
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Re: First precept

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My policy is to help insects if I can
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Sam Vara
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Re: First precept

Post by Sam Vara »

cappuccino wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:30 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:58 am Which post before?
I say killing insects is realistic


He said is certain doom


To which I said… not certain
So what's that got to do with all religions "teaching heaven"? That is, apparently, what makes your statement wrong. I think he is just trying to obfuscate by claiming he was referring to something else. But thanks for attempting to clarify. :anjali:
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cappuccino
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Re: First precept

Post by cappuccino »

Sam Vara wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:11 pm So what's that got to do with all religions "teaching heaven"?
I was saying… Buddhism is likely to lead to heaven


Rather than the hell he was threatening
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