In the other discussion, you can see some Sutta references I quoted.
viewtopic.php?p=459184#p459184
First precept
Re: First precept
Quote all the suttas you want, but you made accusations towards me. So I demand to know your position on this matter.DNS wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:53 am In the other discussion, you can see some Sutta references I quoted.
viewtopic.php?p=459184#p459184
That’s seems only fair, you can’t accuse someone of something and then sit on the fence.
Re: First precept
Thank you for that link. With Retro's link that goes back 13 years!DNS wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:29 amThat's a separate issue / topic. See this other thread:
viewtopic.php?t=14256
Metta
Re: First precept
If people buy this logic of yours, disasters bound to occur.thepea wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:42 am I’m arguing that from observing native originals and the harmony of which they exist with the land that the precept being simply killing is incorrect. And that destruction and the way I’ve presented it seems to resonate with me more.
Now I’m not firm in this and I can be flexible, but this must accompany a sota being not of perfected precepts having according to suttas only removed three fetters. I can totally see how the experience of nibanna removed the three but not how this perfects ones morality.
"I feel like being at peace when I snap someone's neck. If gives me joy and rapture."
"I feel like I'm attaining higher state of consciousness when I happily kill animals, splitting their bodies in half made me happy."
"I feel like I attained peace if I hunt animals down and kill them with my bare hands gracefully. They are happy to die in my hands too."
What kind of human is this? A PSYCHOPATH.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Re: First precept
This is not something you can discuss. This is a precept laid down by the Buddha Himself. Period.
If you don't agree, go away.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Re: First precept
You have admitted to killing in this and in other threads. You asked my opinion. You will see from my posts above, I didn't want to provide my opinion as I knew you wouldn't like it. If you don't want my opinion, don't ask for it next time.
Re: First precept
Ahh, I thought we were discussing the first precept and the possibility it means something else altogether?
A black woman decides I’m not sitting on the back of the bus anymore, and moved to the front.
She stood up and took an action that lead to change.
You do t have to exit the bus.
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Re: First precept
On the question of killing animals, I'm curious about what it was like in rural India during the Buddhas time. Did most people rear and kill their own livestock?
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: First precept
I’m reading:Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:42 am On the question of killing animals, I'm curious about what it was like in rural India during the Buddhas time. Did most people rear and kill their own livestock?
https://journalofethnicfoods.biomedcent ... 22-00129-4
Cows, goats, buffaloes, bulls and Horses!
Lots a grains and dairy too.
Metta
Edit to add: Brahmans were mainly vegetarian.
Last edited by NotMe on Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: First precept
This is what I was curious also about given the sweeping statement that buddhists don’t kill and the monastics stick to their own culture. They do seem to eat fish and beef and chicken and eggs and all forms of breathing beasts. Who does the killing?Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:42 am On the question of killing animals, I'm curious about what it was like in rural India during the Buddhas time. Did most people rear and kill their own livestock?
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Re: First precept
Undoubtedly, some buddhists do kill. Some are fishermen, some might even work in slaughterhouses. It just means that they aren't following the precepts perfectly, but are still buddhists. Just as there are some Jews who eat pork (even though it's not kosher) and some Muslims who eat during the day during Ramadan, etc.
Re: First precept
I comprehend that blood and guts and killing is a sensitive subject. But where I live people call piglets bacon seeds and list them for sale as such. No the women laugh and joke and buy them to raise.Ontheway wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:28 amIf people buy this logic of yours, disasters bound to occur.thepea wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:42 am I’m arguing that from observing native originals and the harmony of which they exist with the land that the precept being simply killing is incorrect. And that destruction and the way I’ve presented it seems to resonate with me more.
Now I’m not firm in this and I can be flexible, but this must accompany a sota being not of perfected precepts having according to suttas only removed three fetters. I can totally see how the experience of nibanna removed the three but not how this perfects ones morality.
"I feel like being at peace when I snap someone's neck. If gives me joy and rapture."
"I feel like I'm attaining higher state of consciousness when I happily kill animals, splitting their bodies in half made me happy."
"I feel like I attained peace if I hunt animals down and kill them with my bare hands gracefully. They are happy to die in my hands too."
What kind of human is this? A PSYCHOPATH.
These people do not hate animals and they are very wise at caring for them and their needs to enjoy happy lives up until the end.
Also we have 600 acres of public land across the street from our homestead and the hunters hunt bear and moose and they too are extremely knowledgeable of the environment and animal populations, and have an etiquette to choosing who goes in the crosshairs.
The river bounds with fishermen and the animals hunt each other in the forest.
It’s a blood bath around here. But it’s natural and peaceful and seems much more aligned than the big city we left over a year ago.
I don’t reccomend thinking those thoughts you mention.
Last edited by thepea on Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First precept
Samma ajiva in 8fnp is quoted by budda because it is an all time universal reqirement.
The world is shaped by life energy and containing energy is possible only with living beings . Lord budda nowhere as I see has tried to detail what life energy except laying down principles to protect life.
Just imagine what the world would be without life energy. Even plants have life energy as believed by jaimists. But only we beings have life energy control and also is controlled by life energy.
Hence lord budda made us protect life as an energy.
Re: First precept
What is a Buddhist?DNS wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:57 amUndoubtedly, some buddhists do kill. Some are fishermen, some might even work in slaughterhouses. It just means that they aren't following the precepts perfectly, but are still buddhists. Just as there are some Jews who eat pork (even though it's not kosher) and some Muslims who eat during the day during Ramadan, etc.
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Re: First precept
It's usually defined as someone who takes refuge in the Triple Gem (Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha) and takes the five precepts (lay people), but this doesn't necessarily mean they will be perfect at keeping the precepts or reaching advanced states of samadhi, etc., or reaching any noble levels, just that they will be practicing as best they can.