What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Do you support abortion

1. Yes
8
20%
2. No
33
80%
 
Total votes: 41

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no_mind_redux
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What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by no_mind_redux »

(According to you) What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Of course you can have only one view (yes/no and reason for your views) and not occupy middle of the road (e.g. I am in favor of abortion at 15 weeks but not 20).

Please - No arguments. No reference to any political party. No reference to any part of the political spectrum.

Of course you are allowed to have an opinion about when life begins according to you, science and philosophy.

Please write what you think as a Buddhist not as a supporter of X or Y political party.

:namaste:

No_Mind
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Ceisiwr
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by Ceisiwr »

The monastic law forbids recommending an abortion. If you also accept the notion of rebirth-linking consciousness, then it’s hard to argue for abortion IMO. Abortion is then akin to intentionally killing any other human.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Jack19990101
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by Jack19990101 »

No for me -I like to err on the safe side.
But also I think certain conditions, it is harmless; certain conditions, it is a breach of precepts.

As for lack of certainty in differentiating the two conditions, i would rather not to make a hasty move, being conservative to it. The consequence of misjudge the situation, is too high a cost to pay.
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NotMe
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by NotMe »

The Buddha allows for medicine. If it is a medicine to save a woman's life, as is the case in a least a few abortions, the shoe fits, so to speak. Forgive my errors.

Metta

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DNS
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by DNS »

no_mind_redux wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:48 pm (According to you) What is the Buddhist view of abortion?
Buddhism is opposed to abortions, as it involves killing and violates the First Precept. A monk is defeated (parajika) even for just recommending an abortion.
Of course you can have only one view (yes/no and reason for your views) and not occupy middle of the road (e.g. I am in favor of abortion at 15 weeks but not 20).
Why no middle way views allowed? :tongue:

For practical reasons (not buddhist reasons), some (or many) buddhists might find it okay for rape, incest, the health of the mother, before an embryo becomes a foetus, perhaps other reasons.
Jack19990101
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by Jack19990101 »

Altho aware of this vinaya rule, my hesitation is like this -
why won't Buddha flat out speak against it instead.

As this has been paid attention to - thus the vinaya rule is.

Another reason could be due to Monks don't have this concern biologically.
dk. puzzled.
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NotMe
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by NotMe »

DNS wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:27 pm
Why no middle way views allowed? :tongue:
Dadgum it David, I let you put an ear worm in my peabrain. Gotta listen to "Middle of the Road" by the Pretenders while I read and post. :tongue:

metta

:anjali:

edit: :offtopic: :oops: :focus:

edit to edit: Abortion as "future financial planning" or "removing future suffering" should not be acceptable. That thought got "Dead skunk in the middle of the road" by Loudon Wainwright III stuck in the playlist. Both have great lyrics IMO <grin>
thepea
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by thepea »

DNS wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:27 pm
no_mind_redux wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:48 pm (According to you) What is the Buddhist view of abortion?
Buddhism is opposed to abortions, as it involves killing and violates the First Precept. A monk is defeated (parajika) even for just recommending an abortion.
Of course you can have only one view (yes/no and reason for your views) and not occupy middle of the road (e.g. I am in favor of abortion at 15 weeks but not 20).
Why no middle way views allowed? :tongue:

For practical reasons (not buddhist reasons), some (or many) buddhists might find it okay for rape, incest, the health of the mother, before an embryo becomes a foetus, perhaps other reasons.
If something is putting your life at risk you can defend yourself.
My view is we each are master of our vessel.
We are all vessels within vessels within vessels so a baby in the womb does not change this.
Killing does not breach the precept, it is destruction(mutilation) if the abortion breaches this it is a foul.
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Goofaholix
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by Goofaholix »

I don't think anybody supports abortion, many people support the mothers right to choose whether or not to bring a pregnancy to full term.

Unlike some religions Buddhists generally don't tell others to conform to Buddhist morals.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
santa100
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by santa100 »

I think it's a given that Buddhists do not support abortion. It's just that they differ on the implementation: do they enforce it into law to ban the practice OR advise women about the unwholesome kamma of doing it BUT give them the freedom of choice so that that they are "the heir" to their own kamma.
User13866
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by User13866 »

I think sex is immoral
In the female appeared the distinctive features of the female, in the male those of the male. Then truly did woman contemplate man too closely, and man, woman. In them contemplating over much the one the other, passion arose and burning entered their body. They in consequence thereof followed their lusts. And beings seeing them so doing threw, some, sand, some, ashes, some, cowdung, crying: Perish, foul one! Perish, foul one! How can a being treat a being so? 
Dn27
Aborting pregnancy which is a consequence of one's immorality adds insult to injury. This is like covering up a lie with a bigger lie, one bad behavior to avoid the consequences of another.

If one thinks that there is nothing wrong with abortion then the person can't argue that rape should be extraordinarily harshly punished on account of the resultant risk of pregnancy.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by DNS »

thepea wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:56 pm Killing does not breach the precept, it is destruction(mutilation) if the abortion breaches this it is a foul.
Killing does breach the precept, it is what the First Precept is about; to not kill any sentient being. The mutilation part is from the spirit of the teaching. As I have already shown you in another thread:
1. THE FIRST PRECEPT: ABSTINENCE FROM TAKING LIFE
The first of the five precepts reads in Pali, Panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami; in English, "I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking life." Here the word pana, meaning that which breathes, denotes any living being that has breath and consciousness. It includes animals and insects as well as men, but does not include plants as they have only life but not breath or consciousness. The word "living being" is a conventional term, an expression of common usage, signifying in the strict philosophical sense the life faculty (jivitindriya). The word atipata means literally striking down, hence killing or destroying. Thus the precept enjoins abstinence (veramani) from the taking of life. Though the precept's wording prohibits the killing of living beings, in terms of its underlying purpose it can also be understood to prohibit injuring, maiming, and torturing as well.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el282.html
See especially the last sentence where the spirit of the teaching appears to include maiming and harming.

You are now on a campaign to twist the meaning of First Precept to mean only "destruction" which you define as mutilation, perhaps to justify your hunting and fishing, but anyone with a modicum of Dhamma knowledge knows that the First Precept is about not killing.
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Goofaholix
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by Goofaholix »

DNS wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:41 pm Killing does breach the precept, it is what the First Precept is about; to not kill any sentient being.
At what point does a fetus become sentient though? I found a medical article that suggests 30 weeks. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 9209161911

This doesn't necessarily make the decision, one way or the other, more or less problematic.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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Ceisiwr
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Goofaholix wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:03 pm
DNS wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:41 pm Killing does breach the precept, it is what the First Precept is about; to not kill any sentient being.
At what point does a fetus become sentient though? I found a medical article that suggests 30 weeks. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 9209161911

This doesn't necessarily make the decision, one way or the other, more or less problematic.
Science doesn’t tell us when a human being begins, when consciousness is in the womb. The underlying assumption in the article is emergentism. Emergentism as it applies to mind isn’t a scientific idea. It’s a philosophical one.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
thepea
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?

Post by thepea »

DNS wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:41 pm You are now on a campaign to twist the meaning of First Precept to mean only "destruction" which you define as mutilation, perhaps to justify your hunting and fishing, but anyone with a modicum of Dhamma knowledge knows that the First Precept is about not killing.
I’m saying as was illustrated by others it’s not killing, it’s destruction, taking of last breath.
Destruction is mutilation which contains cruelty.
One can kill without cruelty or destruction given the rebirth kammic teachings. This is why you cannot suicide out of samsara, pop your right back in. Your last exhale of this form and your inhale will be in another form.
Recycling at its finest.
Now this is more for layfolk with food harvesting but if you are doing retreat or goal is jhana then you cannot take part in fishing/hunting or ping pong(or any other activity to entertain the mind) as this will stir up thought and you need a still mind fir insight to arise.
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