History of Yoga

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Nicholas Weeks
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History of Yoga

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Before Patanjali text and after - about one & half hour:

Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
Bundokji
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Re: History of Yoga

Post by Bundokji »

Thanks for sharing. :anjali:

I am yet to watch the video, but the beginning indicates that Yoga is older than Buddhism. I am wondering if there is a direct connection between the Chakras in Yoga, which in Sanskrit means wheel, and the notion of a wheel in Pali that translates into Cakka.

Whatever the wheel exactly means, it seems common in ancient Indian thought. In Buddhism, a clairvoyant predicted that prince Gotama would either be cakkavatti or a Buddha. When he became a Buddha, his first sermon is titled Dhammacakkappavattana. Bhava-cakka, 'wheel of existence', or of life, is a name for 'dependent origination' (s. paticca-samuppāda). Even the eye of dhamma sounds similar "dhammacakkhu".

When i encounter this, i feel that i am wasting my time trying to understand what the Buddha taught. It seems like some energy channel opens up all of the sudden and people become wise :popcorn:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Sam Vara
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Re: History of Yoga

Post by Sam Vara »

Bundokji wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:06 pm Even the eye of dhamma sounds similar "dhammacakkhu".
I think it's purely coincidental, as cakka and cakkhu have different roots.
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Re: History of Yoga

Post by Bundokji »

Sam Vara wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:16 pm
Bundokji wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:06 pm Even the eye of dhamma sounds similar "dhammacakkhu".
I think it's purely coincidental, as cakka and cakkhu have different roots.
Drawing this parallel was meant to be a joke :tongue:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Sam Vara
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Re: History of Yoga

Post by Sam Vara »

Bundokji wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:27 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:16 pm
Bundokji wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:06 pm Even the eye of dhamma sounds similar "dhammacakkhu".
I think it's purely coincidental, as cakka and cakkhu have different roots.
Drawing this parallel was meant to be a joke :tongue:
Ah, sorry! :embarassed:
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Re: History of Yoga

Post by User13866 »


This is also an informative free lecture from the hindu studies centre. He talks about the development of yoga doctrines in India, ignores Buddhist yoga tho.
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Re: History of Yoga

Post by form »

Yoga is not older than Buddhism. The eight limbs of yoga is in fact heavily influenced by Buddhism.

The description of the fourth Jhana as in the whole body is covered with a white cloth together with the descriptions of anapasati is in fact something very hard to comprehend by words.
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Re: History of Yoga

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form wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:56 am Yoga is not older than Buddhism. The eight limbs of yoga is in fact heavily influenced by Buddhism.
Gotama was only the latest buddha, many before him. Yet there is an ancient lineage of Siddhas and the founder of the yoga system, Kapila, lived long before Gotama. The video says Patanjali (compiler of Yoga Sutras) lived 3 or 4 hundred years before Gotama.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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Re: History of Yoga

Post by form »

Nicholas Weeks wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:34 pm
form wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:56 am Yoga is not older than Buddhism. The eight limbs of yoga is in fact heavily influenced by Buddhism.
Gotama was only the latest buddha, many before him. Yet there is an ancient lineage of Siddhas and the founder of the yoga system, Kapila, lived long before Gotama. The video says Patanjali (compiler of Yoga Sutras) lived 3 or 4 hundred years before Gotama.
But I have never seen chakras mentioned in the suttas.
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Re: History of Yoga

Post by Coëmgenu »

Nicholas Weeks wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:34 pm
form wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:56 am Yoga is not older than Buddhism. The eight limbs of yoga is in fact heavily influenced by Buddhism.
Gotama was only the latest buddha, many before him. Yet there is an ancient lineage of Siddhas and the founder of the yoga system, Kapila, lived long before Gotama. The video says Patanjali (compiler of Yoga Sutras) lived 3 or 4 hundred years before Gotama.
This would be an instance of Hindutva chronology versus mainstream chronology. According to traditional Hindutva chronology, the Buddha was born in the date that "the West" calls 1887 BCE.
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Re: History of Yoga

Post by form »

Coëmgenu wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:38 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:34 pm
form wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:56 am Yoga is not older than Buddhism. The eight limbs of yoga is in fact heavily influenced by Buddhism.
Gotama was only the latest buddha, many before him. Yet there is an ancient lineage of Siddhas and the founder of the yoga system, Kapila, lived long before Gotama. The video says Patanjali (compiler of Yoga Sutras) lived 3 or 4 hundred years before Gotama.
This would be an instance of Hindutva chronology versus mainstream chronology. According to traditional Hindutva chronology, the Buddha was born in the date that "the West" calls 1887 BCE.
Nearly 2000 years before christ? Versus scholarly estimation of 400 BCE?
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Re: History of Yoga

Post by Coëmgenu »

Yes, traditional Hindutva chronology concerning their own history is severely at variance with modern thought. The usual Hindutva narrative is to blame "Western cultural imperialism" on this disparity between their traditional dates and modern scholarship.

It's pretty much the same case with certain Christians who believe that this earth is only around 5000 years old, because they added up numbers in the Bible to arrive at that number.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: History of Yoga

Post by DNS »

Patañjali (Sanskrit: पतञ्जलि), also called Gonardiya, or Gonikaputra, was a sage in Ancient India.[1] Very little is known about him, and no one knows exactly when he lived. It is estimated from analysis of his works that it was between the 4th and 5th centuries CE.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patanjali

That would place him somewhere around 400 CE, a long way after the Buddha-Gotama (563 BCE - 483 BCE), using best guess historical analyses.

Roughly about 800+ years after Buddha's parinibbana.
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Re: History of Yoga

Post by form »

Coëmgenu wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:48 pm Yes, traditional Hindutva chronology concerning their own history is severely at variance with modern thought. The usual Hindutva narrative is to blame "Western cultural imperialism" on this disparity between their traditional dates and modern scholarship.

It's pretty much the same case with certain Christians who believe that this earth is only around 5000 years old, because they added up numbers in the Bible to arrive at that number.
I think the method used by scholars to estimate and verified are way more reliable.
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Re: History of Yoga

Post by DNS »

Oops, went back to the article and found this:
The compiler of the Yoga sūtras, a text on Yoga theory and practice,[14] and a notable scholar of Samkhya school of Hindu philosophy.[15][16] He is variously estimated to have lived between 2nd century BCE to 4th century CE, with more scholars accepting dates between 2nd and 4th century CE.[17][14][18] The Yogasutras is one of the most important texts in the Indian tradition and the foundation of classical Yoga.[19] It is the Indian Yoga text that was most translated in its medieval era into forty Indian languages.[20]
But still at least 300 years after the Buddha (if we use the oldest date of 2nd century BCE).
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