Surely only if the eggs are fertilised?Goofaholix wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:12 pm (There will also be kammic consequences with eating chicken eggs by the way, which are essentially abortions in a shell).
Kammic consequences of eating eggs?
Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?
Sin is mara(greed/fear of loss) we are all simners and that’s why we are here in this samsaric roundabout.Goofaholix wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:12 pmPutting aside that "sin" is a judeo christian concept that doesn't translate well in a Buddhist context, yes I'd agree that there are always going to be kammic consequences with an abortion. (There will also be kammic consequences with eating chicken eggs by the way, which are essentially abortions in a shell).
There will also be kammic consequences with adding a second mistake to the first mistake and ruining ones life bringing and bringing an unwanted child into a world full of Dukkha.
Somebody in this situation needs needs to weigh these things up and make a decision, I don't want the kammic consequences of telling them what to do.
Yes I would never tell a woman what she must or must not do with her body. But abortion usually involves a dr and this dr must also deal with their kamma.
The chickens we have lay eggs unfertilized as we do not have a rooster as we are not breeding currently.
It just what they do, they lay eggs and scratch for bugs.
I take cate of them and collect the eggs they do not seem to mind at all.
Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?
Of course. High cholesterol and heart attackGoofaholix wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:12 pm (There will also be kammic consequences with eating chicken eggs by the way, ....
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Re: Kammic consequences of eating eggs?
There is a level of harm in anything you eat. Just raising crops involves plowing the ground and killing insects. Then there are the chemicals used. The water which could have gone to other things. Fertilizer runoff. The work of growing crops is hard and painful. Then there are the insects killed during harvesting. Possibly small animals, killed by the large machines. The carbon and toxins put in the air by burning fuel to raise the crops and transport them. Your intention in eating is to feed your body. You aren't trying to kill and poison. The stuff is at the store and you buy it. So the thing is, you are overthinking. You could take it a lot farther, but you would be a Jainist rather than a Buddhist.
Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?
No proof in that. People eat and cook with eggs for centuries. I think it’s fear causing the high cholesterol and heart attacks. It’s mental.SteRo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:40 amOf course. High cholesterol and heart attackGoofaholix wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:12 pm (There will also be kammic consequences with eating chicken eggs by the way, ....
Re: Kammic consequences of eating eggs?
Yup, we all kill, it’s intention that matters.Inedible wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:47 am There is a level of harm in anything you eat. Just raising crops involves plowing the ground and killing insects. Then there are the chemicals used. The water which could have gone to other things. Fertilizer runoff. The work of growing crops is hard and painful. Then there are the insects killed during harvesting. Possibly small animals, killed by the large machines. The carbon and toxins put in the air by burning fuel to raise the crops and transport them. Your intention in eating is to feed your body. You aren't trying to kill and poison. The stuff is at the store and you buy it. So the thing is, you are overthinking. You could take it a lot farther, but you would be a Jainist rather than a Buddhist.
Re: Kammic consequences of eating eggs?
Being alive itself has karmic consequences! It's a dog-eat-dog world.
The "cost of living".
The "cost of living".
"And how is physical food to be regarded? Suppose a couple, husband & wife, taking meager provisions, were to travel through a desert. With them would be their only baby son, dear & appealing. Then the meager provisions of the couple going through the desert would be used up & depleted while there was still a stretch of the desert yet to be crossed. The thought would occur to them, 'Our meager provisions are used up & depleted while there is still a stretch of this desert yet to be crossed. What if we were to kill this only baby son of ours, dear & appealing, and make dried meat & jerky. That way — chewing on the flesh of our son — at least the two of us would make it through this desert. Otherwise, all three of us would perish.' So they would kill their only baby son, loved & endearing, and make dried meat & jerky. Chewing on the flesh of their son, they would make it through the desert. While eating the flesh of their only son, they would beat their breasts, [crying,] 'Where have you gone, our only baby son? Where have you gone, our only baby son?' Now what do you think, monks: Would that couple eat that food playfully or for intoxication, or for putting on bulk, or for beautification?"
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?
There are conditions for an egg to be fertilised. Hence agro farmists have found ways to make eggs which are disabled to be fertilised hence do not create life.Sam Vara wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:16 pmSurely only if the eggs are fertilised?Goofaholix wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:12 pm (There will also be kammic consequences with eating chicken eggs by the way, which are essentially abortions in a shell).
Re: Kammic consequences of eating eggs?
That is one way of looking at it. It’s probably the Christian upbringing in me but I’ve always viewed it as:
Those who live by the sword, die by the sword. A choice.
You reap what you sow. A choice.
It takes two to tango, be the lead partner. And then yes being alive has its karmic consequences and it is all good.
Metta
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Re: Kammic consequences of eating eggs?
Sure, growing crops causes some harm, but feeding the crop to animals and then killing the animals for food causes a lot more harm. It's also a very wasteful use of resources.Inedible wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:47 am There is a level of harm in anything you eat. Just raising crops involves plowing the ground and killing insects. Then there are the chemicals used. The water which could have gone to other things. Fertilizer runoff. The work of growing crops is hard and painful. Then there are the insects killed during harvesting. Possibly small animals, killed by the large machines. The carbon and toxins put in the air by burning fuel to raise the crops and transport them. Your intention in eating is to feed your body. You aren't trying to kill and poison. The stuff is at the store and you buy it. So the thing is, you are overthinking. You could take it a lot farther, but you would be a Jainist rather than a Buddhist.
If you consider developing harmlessness as an aspect of Right Intention, it's pretty obvious that we should be trying to minimise the harm we do, not using excuses to justify a dietary preference.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: Kammic consequences of eating eggs?
The basic dichotomy would be we either live to eat or eat to live. Nutrition for both the rupa and arupa (Sila) should take precedence over flavors.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:36 am If you consider developing harmlessness as an aspect of Right Intention, it's pretty obvious that we should be trying to minimise the harm we do, not using excuses to justify a dietary preference.
Proper nutrition was dictated for the monks by the Buddha, allowing certain foods into their alms bowl. As lay people, the Parisa, we have a wider variety of choices but all choices are not equal. Two way nutrition tops my list. Dare I say feeding NotSelf And Self - two birds with one stone or double your pleasure, double your fun. <grin>
Metta
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Re: Kammic consequences of eating eggs?
I don't see a dichotomy, just an imperative. to minimise harm. And meat is not an essential dietary requirement.NotMe wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:00 amThe basic dichotomy would be we either live to eat or eat to live. Nutrition for both the rupa and arupa (Sila) should take precedence over flavors.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:36 am If you consider developing harmlessness as an aspect of Right Intention, it's pretty obvious that we should be trying to minimise the harm we do, not using excuses to justify a dietary preference.
Proper nutrition was dictated for the monks by the Buddha, allowing certain foods into their alms bowl. As lay people, the Parisa, we have a wider variety of choices but all choices are not equal. Two way nutrition tops my list. Dare I say feeding NotSelf And Self - two birds with one stone or double your pleasure, double your fun. <grin>
Metta
The 3-fold rule wasn't about "proper nutrition", it was about trying to reduce the number of animals slaughtered for monks by villagers.
Eat what you like, but please don't overlook the degrees of harm caused by dietary choices.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: What is the Buddhist view of abortion?
Yes, there is an age-old way to do it, which is to keep the laying hen away from the rooster!justindesilva wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:12 amThere are conditions for an egg to be fertilised. Hence agro farmists have found ways to make eggs which are disabled to be fertilised hence do not create life.Sam Vara wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:16 pmSurely only if the eggs are fertilised?Goofaholix wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:12 pm (There will also be kammic consequences with eating chicken eggs by the way, which are essentially abortions in a shell).
I do without eggs, because I'm concerned about the cruelty and killing involved in egg production. On a couple of occasions, people who have kept hens merely as pets have offered me unfertilised eggs or food containing them. I guess it's because I've been a vegan for so long - maybe you lose some enzymes or something - but the smell of eggs is really bad and makes me feel queasy. I could force myself to eat one, but it would be tough going. It's exactly the same with milk and cheese. Whatever the ethics, in gustatory terms, nasty.
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Re: Kammic consequences of eating eggs?
Killing animals doesn't generate a huge amount of negative karma. But torturing animals might. Eating eggs are not even counted as slaughtering a living being. If you kill an animal and give the meat to poor and hungry people you might even gain karma. If you consume a living being just be grateful and give thanks to the animal that gave its life to nourish you, it's more wholesome this way.
money is worthless toilet paper • the tongue has no bone (a person might say one thing but it cannot be further from the truth) • you cannot teach a goat math as in you cannot teach the dhamma to a dumb person