Part of you has to die

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Part of you has to die

Post by befriend »

I heard a theravadan monk say this, but I'm not sure what he meant. Any monastics know what this phrase means in terms of the path?
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by SteRo »

befriend wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:37 pm I heard a theravadan monk say this, but I'm not sure what he meant. Any monastics know what this phrase means in terms of the path?
Obviously this monk was an eternalist because there is no reason to speak of "part of you" in terms of your death. I think that the buddhist doctrine of rebirth necessarily entails eternalist views.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Alino
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:15 pm
Contact:

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by Alino »

befriend wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:37 pm I heard a theravadan monk say this, but I'm not sure what he meant. Any monastics know what this phrase means in terms of the path?
I suppose that it mean that we need to loose/let go/desenchant about the thing that we are most attached to, to loose something we are most identify with.

Loosing the job that we identify with is a little death for our self.
Loosing one's wife or friend is a little death for our self.
Loosing one's delusion about the nature of conditioned things is a big death...

Little deaths can be reconstructed or healed, but a big death fills the mind with dispassion and freedom.

When we loose ownership of our body, feelings, perceptions, formations, sense consciousness - we feel relief from the burden of the death, loosing ownership of our khandhas is the death before the death. One who is already dead can not die again, so Mara have no more power over one who is free from birth and death.

In order to get free from birth and death we have to understand birth and death.
To understand them we have to look at them closely and clearly, look how dukkha arises, how it changes, and how it ceasses by it's own... More it dies, more we get free from it. Because all that dies is not me, mine, my self... Our mind need to understand this simple truth... so let it understand it...

Imho
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by befriend »

Alino wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:17 pm
befriend wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:37 pm I heard a theravadan monk say this, but I'm not sure what he meant. Any monastics know what this phrase means in terms of the path?
I suppose that it mean that we need to loose/let go/desenchant about the thing that we are most attached to, to loose something we are most identify with.

Loosing the job that we identify with is a little death for our self.
Loosing one's wife or friend is a little death for our self.
Loosing one's delusion about the nature of conditioned things is a big death...

Little deaths can be reconstructed or healed, but a big death fills the mind with dispassion and freedom.

When we loose ownership of our body, feelings, perceptions, formations, sense consciousness - we feel relief from the burden of the death, loosing ownership of our khandhas is the death before the death. One who is already dead can not die again, so Mara have no more power over one who is free from birth and death.

In order to get free from birth and death we have to understand birth and death.
To understand them we have to look at them closely and clearly, look how dukkha arises, how it changes, and how it ceasses by it's own... More it dies, more we get free from it. Because all that dies is not me, mine, my self... Our mind need to understand this simple truth... so let it understand it...

Imho
Thank you Alino
:goodpost:
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by SteRo »

befriend wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:06 pm
Alino wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:17 pm
befriend wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:37 pm I heard a theravadan monk say this, but I'm not sure what he meant. Any monastics know what this phrase means in terms of the path?
I suppose that it mean that we need to loose/let go/desenchant about the thing that we are most attached to, to loose something we are most identify with.

Loosing the job that we identify with is a little death for our self.
Loosing one's wife or friend is a little death for our self.
Loosing one's delusion about the nature of conditioned things is a big death...

Little deaths can be reconstructed or healed, but a big death fills the mind with dispassion and freedom.

When we loose ownership of our body, feelings, perceptions, formations, sense consciousness - we feel relief from the burden of the death, loosing ownership of our khandhas is the death before the death. One who is already dead can not die again, so Mara have no more power over one who is free from birth and death.

In order to get free from birth and death we have to understand birth and death.
To understand them we have to look at them closely and clearly, look how dukkha arises, how it changes, and how it ceasses by it's own... More it dies, more we get free from it. Because all that dies is not me, mine, my self... Our mind need to understand this simple truth... so let it understand it...

Imho
Thank you Alino
:goodpost:
Hopefully now you can die relaxed - not bothering whether it*s only a part of you or just you.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Are there any suttas which mention a part of someone dying?
Alino's answer makes good sense.
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by befriend »

SteRo wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:52 pm
befriend wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:37 pm I heard a theravadan monk say this, but I'm not sure what he meant. Any monastics know what this phrase means in terms of the path?
Obviously this monk was an eternalist because there is no reason to speak of "part of you" in terms of your death. I think that the buddhist doctrine of rebirth necessarily entails eternalist views.
Why are you talking?
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by befriend »

He meant when walking the Buddhist path in this life, not life after death, or anything about rebirth. Sorry for the angry speech, I realize now it may not have been clear what I meant.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
pegembara
Posts: 3466
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by pegembara »

Every part of "you" have to "die" until nothing of "you" remains to achieve full liberation.
Because the "you" or "I" is a fabrication.
It's "death" by a thousand cuts.
The "death" is not physical death as all death is mental.
And what are the fermentations to be abandoned by seeing?

"This is how he attends inappropriately: 'Was I in the past? Was I not in the past? What was I in the past? How was I in the past? Having been what, what was I in the past? Shall I be in the future? Shall I not be in the future? What shall I be in the future? How shall I be in the future? Having been what, what shall I be in the future?' Or else he is inwardly perplexed about the immediate present: 'Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? Where has this being come from? Where is it bound?'

"As he attends inappropriately in this way, one of six kinds of view arises in him: The view I have a self arises in him as true & established, or the view I have no self... or the view It is precisely by means of self that I perceive self... or the view It is precisely by means of self that I perceive not-self... or the view It is precisely by means of not-self that I perceive self arises in him as true & established, or else he has a view like this: This very self of mine — the knower that is sensitive here & there to the ripening of good & bad actions — is the self of mine that is constant, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change, and will stay just as it is for eternity. This is called a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a writhing of views, a fetter of views. Bound by a fetter of views, the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is not freed from birth, aging, & death, from sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. He is not freed, I tell you, from suffering & stress.

posting.php?mode=reply&t=43303
Last edited by pegembara on Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
pegembara
Posts: 3466
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by pegembara »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:13 pm Are there any suttas which mention a part of someone dying?
Alino's answer makes good sense.
There is a mention of mental death as in dying before you actually do.
The Blessed One said, "Mindfulness of death, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit & great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end. Therefore you should develop mindfulness of death."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
Eharp
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:01 pm

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by Eharp »

Don't know the context but I would interpret that as the part of you that identifies with a "self" has to die in order to progress on the path. We are told that reaching Stream Entry includes the death of the idea of a unique unchangeable self. That is a pretty big nut to swallow for most people.
Jack19990101
Posts: 714
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:40 am

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by Jack19990101 »

SteRo wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:52 pm
befriend wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:37 pm I heard a theravadan monk say this, but I'm not sure what he meant. Any monastics know what this phrase means in terms of the path?
Obviously this monk was an eternalist because there is no reason to speak of "part of you" in terms of your death. I think that the buddhist doctrine of rebirth necessarily entails eternalist views.
Rebirth is not teaching - it is a statement of human problem, it is not part of solution.
All problems are extension of wrong view - it is only natural rebirth process is sustained by wrong view.
Believe in rebirth, is not implying one possesses wrong view.
It means that they believe in Buddha's description of problem.
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by SteRo »

Jack19990101 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:15 am ... natural rebirth process ...
:lol:
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Jack19990101
Posts: 714
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:40 am

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by Jack19990101 »

Although I take misunderstanding of each others in dhamma discussion, is rather normal.
yet this one is only a silly child would be capable of.

Try to read it again, this time, with a pause after word 'natural'.

Here, I have made extra yard attempt to fix the confusion from my part.
I think next, you gonna continue under-aged play with a camouflage tantrum/aggression over the internet.

Of course, I always maintain a light hope that there are a few who is disciplined enough to abstain from such an obnoxious move. Very patterned, that move feels like a ritual many religiously follow.

My advice is not to do it. It gets no effect on me. But to u, u will feel regrets later on, making your mind muddle.
dharmacorps
Posts: 2298
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Part of you has to die

Post by dharmacorps »

Without more context as far as what was said, I'm afraid we can't explain what the monk was saying or what he meant. Of course conventionally, all of what "you" identify as "you" is not going to survive. If you say anything else on DW, you get called an "eternalist", so I'll leave it there.
Post Reply