gloss of 'nāga': the dragon is real, not an imaginary 'myth'

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
User avatar
frank k
Posts: 2247
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm
Contact:

gloss of 'nāga': the dragon is real, not an imaginary 'myth'

Post by frank k »

www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: gloss of 'nāga': the dragon is real, not an imaginary 'myth'

Post by JamesTheGiant »

So dragons are real? Talking, flying, magical-powered shape-changing dragons that we read about in the suttas?
And not in some other realm, but actually on our Earth about 2500 years ago.
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22410
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: gloss of 'nāga': the dragon is real, not an imaginary 'myth'

Post by Ceisiwr »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:56 pm So dragons are real? Talking, flying, magical-powered shape-changing dragons that we read about in the suttas?
And not in some other realm, but actually on our Earth about 2500 years ago.
The lack of evidence for such a super-predator is striking. Strange we haven’t found any fossils of said beasts in my dragon country, Wales.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
User avatar
frank k
Posts: 2247
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm
Contact:

Re: gloss of 'nāga': the dragon is real, not an imaginary 'myth'

Post by frank k »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:56 pm So dragons are real? Talking, flying, magical-powered shape-changing dragons that we read about in the suttas?
And not in some other realm, but actually on our Earth about 2500 years ago.
There's a strange discrimination against nāga (dragon) that isn't there for other not easily verifiable things in the suttas.
Are the heaven of the 4 great kings mythological?
Heaven of 33?
Brahma?
Māra?
Any devas and ghosts?

Brahma, many other deva realms can change their appearance at will, taking on humanoid, animal form.
Why is it hard to believe nāgas (who are supposed to have excellent samādhi and psychic power) can do so as well?

The vinaya has a rule preventing a dragon (who temporarily took human form) from ordaining as a bhikkhu.
Is that a myth too?
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
User avatar
frank k
Posts: 2247
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm
Contact:

Re: gloss of 'nāga': the dragon is real, not an imaginary 'myth'

Post by frank k »

anyone know the exact vinaya reference for this?

https://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebsut020.htm
... Once a Naga, a powerful serpent who can take the form of a human being, was mistakenly ordained as a monk. Shortly after, when asleep in his hut, the naga returned to the shape of a huge snake. The monk who shared the hut was somewhat alarmed when he woke up to see a great snake sleeping next to him! The Lord Buddha summoned the naga and told him he may not remain as a monk, at which the utterly disconsolate snake began to weep. The snake was given the Five Precepts as the means to attaining a human existence in his next life when he can then be a monk. Then out of compassion for the sad snake, the Lord Buddha said that from then on all candidates for the monkhood be called 'Naga' as a consolation. They are still called 'Naga' to this day.
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
wenjaforever
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue May 24, 2022 4:44 am

Re: gloss of 'nāga': the dragon is real, not an imaginary 'myth'

Post by wenjaforever »

So basically heavenly animals?
money is worthless toilet paper • the tongue has no bone (a person might say one thing but it cannot be further from the truth) • you cannot teach a goat math as in you cannot teach the dhamma to a dumb person
justindesilva
Posts: 2602
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: gloss of 'nāga': the dragon is real, not an imaginary 'myth'

Post by justindesilva »

:thumbsup:
frank k wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:50 pm anyone know the exact vinaya reference for this?

https://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebsut020.htm
... Once a Naga, a powerful serpent who can take the form of a human being, was mistakenly ordained as a monk. Shortly after, when asleep in his hut, the naga returned to the shape of a huge snake. The monk who shared the hut was somewhat alarmed when he woke up to see a great snake sleeping next to him! The Lord Buddha summoned the naga and told him he may not remain as a monk, at which the utterly disconsolate snake began to weep. The snake was given the Five Precepts as the means to attaining a human existence in his next life when he can then be a monk. Then out of compassion for the sad snake, the Lord Buddha said that from then on all candidates for the monkhood be called 'Naga' as a consolation. They are still called 'Naga' to this day.
From my understanding Nagas were a folk who lived in India and Sri lanka too known historically. Nagas community were so known because they worshipped nagas as understood to be Cobras. Any connection of Cobras with these heavenly nagas is question. When lord budda was said to have been protected by a large Naga king the picture of a large cobra is drawn protected with its expanded head . The name of this cobra being Muchalinda is also believed to be the king of a Naga community who lived in India.
Post Reply