Are there Eternalists here?
Re: Are there Eternalists here?
I don't think that this "maybe-confused" contemporary Zen-Advaita fusionary teacher is the best example for that.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: Are there Eternalists here?
Re: Are there Eternalists here?
So, to be clear, I think that your insistence on denying that there is no self is a subtle form of Buddha-slandering. That aside, other words:
The Buddha didn't teach the same Dharma to everyone. He would withhold teachings if their disclosure would cause suffering and delusion, as evidenced by the cases of Vacchagotta and Anāthapiṇḍika, neither of whom were taught anattā until quite a while had lapsed.
So I used to really condemn that article by Ven Thanissaro, but now I merely think it trivially unwise. It does step in a few places towards slandering the Dharma still though.
There is an important precedence in "holding back" with anattā teachings, as set by the greatest of orators, the teacher of gods and men.
The Buddha didn't teach the same Dharma to everyone. He would withhold teachings if their disclosure would cause suffering and delusion, as evidenced by the cases of Vacchagotta and Anāthapiṇḍika, neither of whom were taught anattā until quite a while had lapsed.
So I used to really condemn that article by Ven Thanissaro, but now I merely think it trivially unwise. It does step in a few places towards slandering the Dharma still though.
There is an important precedence in "holding back" with anattā teachings, as set by the greatest of orators, the teacher of gods and men.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: Are there Eternalists here?
of course, the truth cannot be valid
Re: Are there Eternalists here?
If you believe the above, how will you ever know truth?
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: Are there Eternalists here?
I mean you don't think it is validCoëmgenu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:33 pmIf you believe the above, how will you ever know truth?
Re: Are there Eternalists here?
The 'there is no self to begin with' is way different from mistaking one's identity with something what isn't you. I haven't seen any evidence that you guys are able to see how they are different, it still amazes me how it is not possible to.Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:24 pmI agree. Today a lot of people are exposed to teachings they aren’t ready for yet if even at all in this life. It creates all kinds of confusion, as evidenced by many posters here past and present. Anatta is hard, and easy to get wrong.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:24 pm Like Vacchagotta before you.
To be fair, I don't think that the Buddha, if he had to give instructions to the members of this forum, would teach anattā here to many. Anattā was clearly a more carefully guarded teaching in the past, unlike how it is casually bandied about and "popified" today. The Buddha was clearly very concerned about its correct interpretation, declining to teach Vacchagotta about it due to his confusion and rebuking Sati rather strongly for saying that he understood the Buddha's Dharma to be in violation of the principle.
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Re: Are there Eternalists here?
Maha-parinibbana Suttathe Blessed One wrote:I have set forth the Dhamma without making any distinction of esoteric and exoteric doctrine; there is nothing, Ananda, with regard to the teachings that the Tathagata holds to the last with the closed fist of a teacher who keeps some things back.
Re: Are there Eternalists here?
This simply means that he has taught Venerable Ānanda everything that he knows of "the Dhamma."
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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- Contact:
Re: Are there Eternalists here?
Nope. I disagree. The Buddha has not taught you all that he knows of the Dhamma.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: Are there Eternalists here?
Simsapa Sutta
What do you think, monks: Which are more numerous, the few leaves in my hand or those overhead in the forest?
Re: Are there Eternalists here?
I don't see the relevance. You are not one of those monks that that Buddha spoke to, monks that he had personally had a hand in the training of.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: Are there Eternalists here?
Buddha is my teacher
Re: Are there Eternalists here?
All Buddhists consider "Buddha" to be their teacher. I'm not impressed. Maybe hordes of silent others are. Who knows?
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.