I’m happy with that since virtue, sense-restraint, Jhana and awakening have nothing to do with them. Monks and nuns have been practicing the NEFP for centuries without said theory.auto wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:40 pmWhen you reject chakra, you reject everything else tied to it too. Unless you have superficial understanding of them like Ceomengu has that they are flesh only, i don't see how one could possible reject chakras when still trying to attain something from meditation/spiritual life.
Chakra and qualities
Re: Chakra and qualities
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Chakra and qualities
I’m sure Tantra includes them, but they don’t require Tantra.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Chakra and qualities
tantra goes further. some arhants caught blood when they hear there is more to do.
you told that you go slow way, and also like to make yourself inept too when restricting oneself from saying bad words.
Re: Chakra and qualities
That Tantra goes further and that Arahants have more to do isn’t something I agree with, nor the majority of this site. Wrong forum I’m afraid.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Chakra and qualities
Buddhist Tantra, as far as the human being and the human mind is concerned, is actually predicated upon medieval Indian materialism. The mind is only the winds. There is no such thing as something immaterial that exists. Malcolm and many Tāntrikas will defend this doctrine to the grave. They even believe that the formless beings are comprised of the rūpa of the air-element. This doctrine appears as a "heretical thesis" assigned to the Vibhajyavādins in the Mahāvibhāṣa, among other places.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: Chakra and qualities
I thought it was the other way around? The Sarvāstivādins had it that there is rupa in the immaterial realms, whilst the Vibhajyavādins argued the opposite?Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:07 pmBuddhist Tantra, as far as the human being and the human mind is concerned, is actually predicated upon medieval Indian materialism. The mind is only the winds. There is no such thing as something immaterial that exists. Malcolm and many Tāntrikas will defend this doctrine to the grave. They even believe that the formless beings are comprised of the rūpa of the air-element. This doctrine appears as a "heretical thesis" assigned to the Vibhajyavādins in the Mahāvibhāṣa, among other places.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Chakra and qualities
In the preamble to the Mahāvibhāṣa, it states that the purposes of its writing were to refute the novel doctrines of the Vibhajyavādin sect, such as that there was saññā (lit. "a subtle mind") in saññavedayitanirodha and that formless beings are comprised of form.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: Chakra and qualities
I see. I stand corrected. Theravāda was an exception then.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:18 pm In the preamble to the Mahāvibhāṣa, it states that the purposes of its writing were to refute the novel doctrines of the Vibhajyavādin sect, such as that there was saññā (lit. "a subtle mind") in saññavedayitanirodha and that formless beings are comprised of form.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Chakra and qualities
Tamraparṇiya Vibhajyavādins seem have to been rather distinct from their continental brothers.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: Chakra and qualities
I say that tantra has nothing to do with the NEFP, because there is no evidence that it has something to do with it. Based on the evidence we have tantra developed much later in Buddhist thought.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Chakra and qualities
At the same time, obviously the Tantric self-narrative is that Buddhas teach the Tantras and that the Tantras have the eightfold path within them. Any Buddhist sect worth its salt will claim that.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: Chakra and qualities
any path what has n8fp elements in it is capable to produce noblemen. Tantra produces noblemen.Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:48 pmI say that tantra has nothing to do with the NEFP, because there is no evidence that it has something to do with it. Based on the evidence we have tantra developed much later in Buddhist thought.
Re: Chakra and qualities
If Tantra produces Arahants isn't something i'm going to speculate on. The NEFP however can and has been practiced without tantra. You might of course think that there are no awakened individuals in Theravāda, but i would then question why you even post here if that is the case.auto wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:09 pmany path what has n8fp elements in it is capable to produce noblemen. Tantra produces noblemen.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”