I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
Chakra and qualities
Re: Chakra and qualities
This is not Buddhism. This is new age.maniture_85 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
Re: Chakra and qualities
Chakras concept can be found in hinduism , taiosm , some thailand buddhism , some mahayana buddhism and tibetan buddhism . But it does not lead to liberation .maniture_85 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
No bashing No gossiping
Re: Chakra and qualities
Asking "is it true?" in a general sense isn't appropriate in the context of religions, spirituality and other speculative systems of thought because individuals are different and have different proclivities. Some of those who follow the chakra "philosophy" certainly can attain particular qualities through practicing accordingly. It is the same with buddhism: some of those who follow it certainly can attain particular qualities through practicing accordingly.maniture_85 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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Re: Chakra and qualities
Are you talking about Buddhism in general?asahi wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:26 am.... But it does not lead to liberation .maniture_85 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
Have you considered other traditions different from Theravada?
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Re: Chakra and qualities
I understand Stero. I was referring exactly to what i wrote, let me be more clear. My request wasSteRo wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:33 amAsking "is it true?" in a general sense isn't appropriate in the context of religions, spirituality and other speculative systems of thought because individuals are different and have different proclivities. Some of those who follow the chakra "philosophy" certainly can attain particular qualities through practicing accordingly. It is the same with buddhism: some of those who follow it certainly can attain particular qualities through practicing accordingly.maniture_85 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
1) if what i described has been experienced by someone, or
2) if is there any sutta reference/teaching about this kind of topic, maybe other traditions talk about those topics
@form
thank you, useful post.
Re: Chakra and qualities
I've used chakras to manipulate my cognition in a preferred way. But I guess that's not very different to e.g. concentrating on the breath and the like. It's just that the narratives around chakras provide more degrees of freedom for manipulation. But of course chakras are not theravada doctrine.maniture_85 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:45 pmI understand Stero. I was referring exactly to what i wrote, let me be more clear. My request wasSteRo wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:33 amAsking "is it true?" in a general sense isn't appropriate in the context of religions, spirituality and other speculative systems of thought because individuals are different and have different proclivities. Some of those who follow the chakra "philosophy" certainly can attain particular qualities through practicing accordingly. It is the same with buddhism: some of those who follow it certainly can attain particular qualities through practicing accordingly.maniture_85 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
1) if what i described has been experienced by someone, or
2) if is there any sutta reference/teaching about this kind of topic, maybe other traditions talk about those topics
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
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Re: Chakra and qualities
I gonna talk about this a little bit. Don't know how much there to say but i gonna try to put a few pointers there.
First, for piti to rise and steady, it is from 'spring well' in our lower torso.
piti is the water which kneats dry patch into buttery dough. Bathman is the breath.
2nd, for sukha to rain in, it is from an open/mesh on top of our head.
I don't believe Sukha is close to any pleasure we are able to experience in our daily life. It is starkly different than pleasure of this world.
Piti goes up out from skull/skin, sukha rains down from beyond skull.
Top of the skull must be open - like lotus fully emerged under water. If skull is not open, it is the lotus which outstands of water, which is against MN 23(32? not fully sure the digit).
3rd point, as to approach to it. Satipathanna, kayagatasati, Anapansati, can lead one there. No other requirement to meditate on a specific location of body.
It is being mentioned by other religions or traditions, it doesn't really contradict its legit state on the right path.
Although I do have deep doubt on you can just focus on tummy or head to get to it. But again, we may not have all details on how other traditions go about it.
Buddha's instruction is miracle, follow theme of sati/right view, there will be pleasure to have. Or other theme of meditation prescribed by Buddha, it is truly miracle.
First, for piti to rise and steady, it is from 'spring well' in our lower torso.
piti is the water which kneats dry patch into buttery dough. Bathman is the breath.
2nd, for sukha to rain in, it is from an open/mesh on top of our head.
I don't believe Sukha is close to any pleasure we are able to experience in our daily life. It is starkly different than pleasure of this world.
Piti goes up out from skull/skin, sukha rains down from beyond skull.
Top of the skull must be open - like lotus fully emerged under water. If skull is not open, it is the lotus which outstands of water, which is against MN 23(32? not fully sure the digit).
3rd point, as to approach to it. Satipathanna, kayagatasati, Anapansati, can lead one there. No other requirement to meditate on a specific location of body.
It is being mentioned by other religions or traditions, it doesn't really contradict its legit state on the right path.
Although I do have deep doubt on you can just focus on tummy or head to get to it. But again, we may not have all details on how other traditions go about it.
Buddha's instruction is miracle, follow theme of sati/right view, there will be pleasure to have. Or other theme of meditation prescribed by Buddha, it is truly miracle.
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Re: Chakra and qualities
The best system within the Theravada framework for this is Ajahn Lee's breath energy jhana teachings. Although he doesn't explicitly call them 'chakras' he talks about the bases of the breath and they do largely correlate so you can work with this.maniture_85 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
https://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Wri ... 181215.pdf
Ajahn Thanissaro teaches by this method and has occasionally talked about the chakra points also in this context.
Jack19990101 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:01 am I gonna talk about this a little bit. Don't know how much there to say but i gonna try to put a few pointers there.
First, for piti to rise and steady, it is from 'spring well' in our lower torso.
piti is the water which kneats dry patch into buttery dough. Bathman is the breath.
2nd, for sukha to rain in, it is from an open/mesh on top of our head.
I don't believe Sukha is close to any pleasure we are able to experience in our daily life. It is starkly different than pleasure of this world.
Piti goes up out from skull/skin, sukha rains down from beyond skull.
Top of the skull must be open - like lotus fully emerged under water. If skull is not open, it is the lotus which outstands of water, which is against MN 23(32? not fully sure the digit).
3rd point, as to approach to it. Satipathanna, kayagatasati, Anapansati, can lead one there. No other requirement to meditate on a specific location of body.
It is being mentioned by other religions or traditions, it doesn't really contradict its legit state on the right path.
Although I do have deep doubt on you can just focus on tummy or head to get to it. But again, we may not have all details on how other traditions go about it.
Buddha's instruction is miracle, follow theme of sati/right view, there will be pleasure to have. Or other theme of meditation prescribed by Buddha, it is truly miracle.
There is nothing more nauseating than seeing lay scholastics dismiss such understandings without much practice of their own when:
- The ancient way of teaching meditation was from teacher to student, therefore we cannot simply go by what is left in the Pali canon as detailed meditation instructions are not included it's only a schematic.
- Some teachers such as Ajahn Lee has attained jhanas and taught by this method fully consistent with the Dhamma.
- Analogies for jhana in the Pali Canon seem to imply this understanding and can be interpreted in this way also for full body breath energies.
- It's consistent to an extent with meditation practices in some other traditions but with different emphasis for seeing the 4 enobling truths
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...
That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."
(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."
(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
Re: Chakra and qualities
Chakras have nothing to do with the Dhamma.
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
Re: Chakra and qualities
you mean cakka, wheel?
if someone could enlighten me on what is those arguments called what ceiswir is making? when i try understand what he means by it, my brain is crashing. Same is with those people who reject commentaries because well nimittas doesn't exist in buddhadhamma..https://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/c/cakka/ wrote:PTS Pali-English dictionary The Pali Text Society's Pali-English dictionary
Cakka,(nt.) [Vedic cakra,redupl.formation fr.*quel to turn round (cp.P.kaṇṭha › Lat.collus & see also note on gala)=that which is (continuously) turning,i.e.wheel,or abstr,the shape or periphery of it,i.e.circle.Cakra=Gr.ku/klos,Ags.hveohl,hveol=wheel.
Last edited by auto on Sat Jul 23, 2022 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Chakra and qualities
Chakras has nothing to do with historical Gotama Buddha and his teachings.
And chakras and Pali word "cakka" are two different things.
And chakras and Pali word "cakka" are two different things.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.
https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Re: Chakra and qualities
one reason i can come up with is if someone has explained it already 1000 times. But i doubt its the case here.
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Re: Chakra and qualities
Re - Ajahn Lee. Yeah, Master in breathing meditation theme.
Re - nimitta
Don't know details about commentary nimitta, but nimitta is necessary for our training.
The term 'knowledge and vision' in sutta, often is as a closing for a certain attainment.
The vision is a nimitta of sorts.
It is a checkpoint of our practice, validation of an super mandate insight arising for good.
With knowledge and vision, there is no more doubt or necessity to inquire verification else where.
I gonna offer a couple examples. i.e. when we see body attachment, the vision would be consciousness as a Gem of purest water, tied with a string of color, with body.
Speculation another one - when liberation occurs, vision of Buddha in his historic form, would appear.
I remember there is an argument questioning Ajahn Mun on his vision of meetings Buddha & noble sangha. I think those argument against the vision, is ill-based.
It is not about Buddha manifests to Ajahn Mun. It is about what a liberated mind manifests about the teacher.
Re - nimitta
Don't know details about commentary nimitta, but nimitta is necessary for our training.
The term 'knowledge and vision' in sutta, often is as a closing for a certain attainment.
The vision is a nimitta of sorts.
It is a checkpoint of our practice, validation of an super mandate insight arising for good.
With knowledge and vision, there is no more doubt or necessity to inquire verification else where.
I gonna offer a couple examples. i.e. when we see body attachment, the vision would be consciousness as a Gem of purest water, tied with a string of color, with body.
Speculation another one - when liberation occurs, vision of Buddha in his historic form, would appear.
I remember there is an argument questioning Ajahn Mun on his vision of meetings Buddha & noble sangha. I think those argument against the vision, is ill-based.
It is not about Buddha manifests to Ajahn Mun. It is about what a liberated mind manifests about the teacher.