Chakra and qualities

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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maniture_85
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Chakra and qualities

Post by maniture_85 »

I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
form
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by form »

maniture_85 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
This is not Buddhism. This is new age.
asahi
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by asahi »

maniture_85 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
Chakras concept can be found in hinduism , taiosm , some thailand buddhism , some mahayana buddhism and tibetan buddhism . But it does not lead to liberation .
No bashing No gossiping
SteRo
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by SteRo »

maniture_85 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
Asking "is it true?" in a general sense isn't appropriate in the context of religions, spirituality and other speculative systems of thought because individuals are different and have different proclivities. Some of those who follow the chakra "philosophy" certainly can attain particular qualities through practicing accordingly. It is the same with buddhism: some of those who follow it certainly can attain particular qualities through practicing accordingly.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
maniture_85
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by maniture_85 »

asahi wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:26 am
maniture_85 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
.... But it does not lead to liberation .
Are you talking about Buddhism in general?
Have you considered other traditions different from Theravada?
maniture_85
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by maniture_85 »

SteRo wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:33 am
maniture_85 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
Asking "is it true?" in a general sense isn't appropriate in the context of religions, spirituality and other speculative systems of thought because individuals are different and have different proclivities. Some of those who follow the chakra "philosophy" certainly can attain particular qualities through practicing accordingly. It is the same with buddhism: some of those who follow it certainly can attain particular qualities through practicing accordingly.
I understand Stero. I was referring exactly to what i wrote, let me be more clear. My request was

1) if what i described has been experienced by someone, or
2) if is there any sutta reference/teaching about this kind of topic, maybe other traditions talk about those topics

@form
thank you, useful post.
SteRo
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by SteRo »

maniture_85 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:45 pm
SteRo wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:33 am
maniture_85 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
Asking "is it true?" in a general sense isn't appropriate in the context of religions, spirituality and other speculative systems of thought because individuals are different and have different proclivities. Some of those who follow the chakra "philosophy" certainly can attain particular qualities through practicing accordingly. It is the same with buddhism: some of those who follow it certainly can attain particular qualities through practicing accordingly.
I understand Stero. I was referring exactly to what i wrote, let me be more clear. My request was

1) if what i described has been experienced by someone, or
2) if is there any sutta reference/teaching about this kind of topic, maybe other traditions talk about those topics
I've used chakras to manipulate my cognition in a preferred way. But I guess that's not very different to e.g. concentrating on the breath and the like. It's just that the narratives around chakras provide more degrees of freedom for manipulation. But of course chakras are not theravada doctrine.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Jack19990101
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by Jack19990101 »

I gonna talk about this a little bit. Don't know how much there to say but i gonna try to put a few pointers there.
First, for piti to rise and steady, it is from 'spring well' in our lower torso.
piti is the water which kneats dry patch into buttery dough. Bathman is the breath.
2nd, for sukha to rain in, it is from an open/mesh on top of our head.
I don't believe Sukha is close to any pleasure we are able to experience in our daily life. It is starkly different than pleasure of this world.
Piti goes up out from skull/skin, sukha rains down from beyond skull.

Top of the skull must be open - like lotus fully emerged under water. If skull is not open, it is the lotus which outstands of water, which is against MN 23(32? not fully sure the digit).

3rd point, as to approach to it. Satipathanna, kayagatasati, Anapansati, can lead one there. No other requirement to meditate on a specific location of body.

It is being mentioned by other religions or traditions, it doesn't really contradict its legit state on the right path.
Although I do have deep doubt on you can just focus on tummy or head to get to it. But again, we may not have all details on how other traditions go about it.

Buddha's instruction is miracle, follow theme of sati/right view, there will be pleasure to have. Or other theme of meditation prescribed by Buddha, it is truly miracle.
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

maniture_85 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:22 am I'm sorry if it's not the right section, but i'm new and ignorant about this kind of theme ( Chakra ).
Is it true that, through practicing concentration on a specific chakra, it can produce, explicate, make manifest ( real ), a set of specific qualities or virtues?
Is it true the opposite which is, through practicing with one's own mind, speech, action, one or more set of specific qualities or virtues, it can regulate and somehow "improve", or balance, or "open", one's specific chakra?
The best system within the Theravada framework for this is Ajahn Lee's breath energy jhana teachings. Although he doesn't explicitly call them 'chakras' he talks about the bases of the breath and they do largely correlate so you can work with this.

https://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Wri ... 181215.pdf

Ajahn Thanissaro teaches by this method and has occasionally talked about the chakra points also in this context.




Jack19990101 wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:01 am I gonna talk about this a little bit. Don't know how much there to say but i gonna try to put a few pointers there.
First, for piti to rise and steady, it is from 'spring well' in our lower torso.
piti is the water which kneats dry patch into buttery dough. Bathman is the breath.
2nd, for sukha to rain in, it is from an open/mesh on top of our head.
I don't believe Sukha is close to any pleasure we are able to experience in our daily life. It is starkly different than pleasure of this world.
Piti goes up out from skull/skin, sukha rains down from beyond skull.

Top of the skull must be open - like lotus fully emerged under water. If skull is not open, it is the lotus which outstands of water, which is against MN 23(32? not fully sure the digit).

3rd point, as to approach to it. Satipathanna, kayagatasati, Anapansati, can lead one there. No other requirement to meditate on a specific location of body.

It is being mentioned by other religions or traditions, it doesn't really contradict its legit state on the right path.
Although I do have deep doubt on you can just focus on tummy or head to get to it. But again, we may not have all details on how other traditions go about it.

Buddha's instruction is miracle, follow theme of sati/right view, there will be pleasure to have. Or other theme of meditation prescribed by Buddha, it is truly miracle.
:goodpost:

There is nothing more nauseating than seeing lay scholastics dismiss such understandings without much practice of their own when:

- The ancient way of teaching meditation was from teacher to student, therefore we cannot simply go by what is left in the Pali canon as detailed meditation instructions are not included it's only a schematic.

- Some teachers such as Ajahn Lee has attained jhanas and taught by this method fully consistent with the Dhamma.

- Analogies for jhana in the Pali Canon seem to imply this understanding and can be interpreted in this way also for full body breath energies.

- It's consistent to an extent with meditation practices in some other traditions but with different emphasis for seeing the 4 enobling truths
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by Ceisiwr »

Chakras have nothing to do with the Dhamma.
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
auto
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by auto »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 1:34 pm Chakras have nothing to do with the Dhamma.
you mean cakka, wheel?
https://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/c/cakka/ wrote:PTS Pali-English dictionary The Pali Text Society's Pali-English dictionary

Cakka,(nt.) [Vedic cakra,redupl.formation fr.*quel to turn round (cp.P.kaṇṭha › Lat.collus & see also note on gala)=that which is (continuously) turning,i.e.wheel,or abstr,the shape or periphery of it,i.e.circle.Cakra=Gr.ku/klos,Ags.hveohl,hveol=wheel.
if someone could enlighten me on what is those arguments called what ceiswir is making? when i try understand what he means by it, my brain is crashing. Same is with those people who reject commentaries because well nimittas doesn't exist in buddhadhamma..
Last edited by auto on Sat Jul 23, 2022 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ontheway
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by Ontheway »

Chakras has nothing to do with historical Gotama Buddha and his teachings.

And chakras and Pali word "cakka" are two different things.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
auto
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by auto »

Ontheway wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 2:00 pm Chakras has nothing to do with historical Gotama Buddha and his teachings.

And chakras and Pali word "cakka" are two different things.
well then you seem knowing what the cakra is besides what is it meaning in buddhadhamma?
auto
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by auto »

auto wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 1:58 pm if someone could enlighten me on what is those arguments called what ceiswir is making? when i try understand what he means by it, my brain is crashing. Same is with those people who reject commentaries because well nimittas doesn't exist in buddhadhamma..
one reason i can come up with is if someone has explained it already 1000 times. But i doubt its the case here.
Jack19990101
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Re: Chakra and qualities

Post by Jack19990101 »

Re - Ajahn Lee. Yeah, Master in breathing meditation theme.
Re - nimitta

Don't know details about commentary nimitta, but nimitta is necessary for our training.
The term 'knowledge and vision' in sutta, often is as a closing for a certain attainment.
The vision is a nimitta of sorts.
It is a checkpoint of our practice, validation of an super mandate insight arising for good.
With knowledge and vision, there is no more doubt or necessity to inquire verification else where.
I gonna offer a couple examples. i.e. when we see body attachment, the vision would be consciousness as a Gem of purest water, tied with a string of color, with body.

Speculation another one - when liberation occurs, vision of Buddha in his historic form, would appear.

I remember there is an argument questioning Ajahn Mun on his vision of meetings Buddha & noble sangha. I think those argument against the vision, is ill-based.
It is not about Buddha manifests to Ajahn Mun. It is about what a liberated mind manifests about the teacher.
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