They are monks connected to Sujato (including himself) and his suttacentral site. In the pictures, Sujato, Akāliko and Ayya Yesh (maybe she is a nun).
"Truly this is a dream job… There is STILL a distinct lack of cats at Lokanta Vihara!!!
But meanwhile I borrow friends pets for little walks when I can - here’s Tilly:"
Bhante Akāliko
Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
- DNS
- Site Admin
- Posts: 17191
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
- Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
- Contact:
Re: Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
What Vinaya rules are being broken (if any)?
I think it's great for people to have companion pets at least for some period of their life. It gives you that one more connection to another species (we are animals too) and to animals in general. One could have 5, 10, or even 15 pets over the course of their lifetime and they can tell you there are no two alike. They are each unique in their mannerisms, personality, etc.
And they cost very little, pet food is inexpensive, typically being rendered meat (inner organs ground up, other by-products), no animal killed specifically for their food.
I think it's great for people to have companion pets at least for some period of their life. It gives you that one more connection to another species (we are animals too) and to animals in general. One could have 5, 10, or even 15 pets over the course of their lifetime and they can tell you there are no two alike. They are each unique in their mannerisms, personality, etc.
And they cost very little, pet food is inexpensive, typically being rendered meat (inner organs ground up, other by-products), no animal killed specifically for their food.
-
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:20 pm
Re: Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
The Buddha rejected the idea of an all-powerful god,
Not the idea of an all-loving dog.
Not the idea of an all-loving dog.
Rakkhantu sabba-devatā.
May all the devas protect you.
May all the devas protect you.
- JamesTheGiant
- Posts: 2147
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
- Location: New Zealand
Re: Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
Many Buddhist monasteries have cats and animals. People sometimes take their unwanted pets and leave them at the monastery because they know the monks will treat them kindly.
This can actually become a problem, because the temple can become full of cats, noisy dogs, and very noisy chickens and roosters!
Venerable Akaliko doesn't have any pets at the vihara, he just took that dog for a walk a few times.
This can actually become a problem, because the temple can become full of cats, noisy dogs, and very noisy chickens and roosters!
Venerable Akaliko doesn't have any pets at the vihara, he just took that dog for a walk a few times.
Re: Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
There are plenty of animals at monasteries in Thailand. Bhikkhu Dhammanando was looking after a couple of cats when I visited him a few years ago, one of which needed quite a lot of care at the time. Monastic life isn't hermit life. It's designed to involve interaction with other monastics, lay people, etc.JamesTheGiant wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:48 pm Many Buddhist monasteries have cats and animals. People sometimes take their unwanted pets and leave them at the monastery because they know the monks will treat them kindly.
Mike
Re: Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
Is it? Isn't it about reaching the goal and helping others to do so by teaching them? And not about taking care of pets and walking them?mikenz66 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:16 pmMonastic life isn't hermit life. It's designed to involve interaction with other monastics, lay people, etc.JamesTheGiant wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:48 pm Many Buddhist monasteries have cats and animals. People sometimes take their unwanted pets and leave them at the monastery because they know the monks will treat them kindly.
Mike
As far as I am aware the Buddha and his disciples praised seclusion (from society as well) and not involvement in such matters, e.g. from Kassapa:
"he is secluded himself and speaks in praise of seclusion; he is aloof from society himself and speaks in praise of aloofness from society;"
I am not really interested in whether it is a common practice or not.JamesTheGiant wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:48 pm Many Buddhist monasteries have cats and animals. People sometimes take their unwanted pets and leave them at the monastery because they know the monks will treat them kindly.
This can actually become a problem, because the temple can become full of cats, noisy dogs, and very noisy chickens and roosters!
Venerable Akaliko doesn't have any pets at the vihara, he just took that dog for a walk a few times.
I've just learned that a monk is strictly forbidden to accept and handle money. But still, only a few percent of the monks follow this rule. It is the 10. precept.
" Refrain from accepting money (literally gold and silver, but explained as anything that is used for commerce or trade)."
What I am really interested in, not the custom today.
We should not forget that we are talking about monks and not about lay people. So who is a monk?
"Bhikkhus, here some clansman goes forth out of faith from the home life into homelessness, considering: 'I am a victim of birth, ageing, and death, of sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair; I am a victim of suffering, a prey to suffering. Surely an ending of this whole mass of suffering can be known.' "
So in this context, who is really a bhikkhu, is it ok to spend your time on petting and taking care and waking dogs, cats etc...
Do we have any reference from the vinaya or other part of the suttas which support such livelihood for a monk, for someone who has choosen the homlessness out of faith, for one who lives on almsfood?
On the other hand, some seek monkhood for not right livelihood, as Moggalana said:
"So too friend, there are persons who are faithless and have gone forth from the home life into homelessness not out of faith, but seeking a livelihood..."
Re: Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
Well, as I said: "Monastic life isn't hermit life. It's designed to involve interaction with other monastics, lay people, etc."dadati wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:47 pmIs it? Isn't it about reaching the goal and helping others to do so by teaching them? And not about taking care of pets and walking them?mikenz66 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:16 pmMonastic life isn't hermit life. It's designed to involve interaction with other monastics, lay people, etc.JamesTheGiant wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:48 pm Many Buddhist monasteries have cats and animals. People sometimes take their unwanted pets and leave them at the monastery because they know the monks will treat them kindly.
Mike
Perhaps I should have added the obvious: "The Path includes right speech, right action, right livelihood".
OK, walking pets might be a bit frivolous, as might be sweeping leaves, and various other things that monastics do...
Mike
- JamesTheGiant
- Posts: 2147
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
- Location: New Zealand
-
- Posts: 1785
- Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:20 am
Re: Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
I've no in this argument but there is a world of difference between dog walking and maintaining the monastery & surrounds. It probably is no great offence if it is one at all... but to paraphrase the Buddha... it's the look of the thing.mikenz66 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:02 amWell, as I said: "Monastic life isn't hermit life. It's designed to involve interaction with other monastics, lay people, etc."
Perhaps I should have added the obvious: "The Path includes right speech, right action, right livelihood".
OK, walking pets might be a bit frivolous, as might be sweeping leaves, and various other things that monastics do...
Mike
Re: Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
A true monk will let go all attachment to this world and other world.
The problem is what the current monk status is? Are they still attach to this world or not? That needs to be answer by each individually.
Unfortunately, some might see it as attachment as the OP implied.
If they are open minded, upon being notify or consult, the monk will avoid doing such thing and keep seclusion strictly.
But not all monks at that level yet.
Some monks might just ignore you or angry at you, once you notify them. So please proceed carefully.
The problem is what the current monk status is? Are they still attach to this world or not? That needs to be answer by each individually.
Unfortunately, some might see it as attachment as the OP implied.
If they are open minded, upon being notify or consult, the monk will avoid doing such thing and keep seclusion strictly.
But not all monks at that level yet.
Some monks might just ignore you or angry at you, once you notify them. So please proceed carefully.
Re: Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
viewtopic.php?t=36119dadati wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:47 pm So in this context, who is really a bhikkhu, is it ok to spend your time on petting and taking care and waking dogs, cats etc...
Do we have any reference from the vinaya or other part of the suttas which support such livelihood for a monk, for someone who has choosen the homlessness out of faith, for one who lives on almsfood?
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27848
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
Greetings,
If this is a way to cultivate kindness, generosity etc. while maintaining a degree of fitness then it is wholesome and good. On the other hand, it would be a problem if such endeavours were a distraction, or worse, if the person had given up on the Buddhist path and was just (ab)using monastic life for the purposes of receiving requisites and false valour.
Only the bhikkhu in question can know which situation is the case, so if you must know, direct your questions to the monastics in question. Do be aware though that some feel entitled to remain unchallenged by the laity, so don't be surprised if your questions are not well received.
Metta,
Paul.
I think the real answer depends more upon the mind-states underpinning the action, rather than the outward appearance of the action.
If this is a way to cultivate kindness, generosity etc. while maintaining a degree of fitness then it is wholesome and good. On the other hand, it would be a problem if such endeavours were a distraction, or worse, if the person had given up on the Buddhist path and was just (ab)using monastic life for the purposes of receiving requisites and false valour.
Only the bhikkhu in question can know which situation is the case, so if you must know, direct your questions to the monastics in question. Do be aware though that some feel entitled to remain unchallenged by the laity, so don't be surprised if your questions are not well received.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
Him who walks a dog i call 'a dog-walker', not a monk. Him who houses abandoned animals i call 'one who operates an animal rescue'
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27848
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
Greetings,
I think your labelling serves no constructive purpose.
Metta,
Paul.
So to use Mike's analogy above, is a monk who sweeps leaves a "broom operator"?
I think your labelling serves no constructive purpose.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Is it right for a monk, who lives on alms food, to spend his time petting dogs and posing with dogs on leash?
Actually there is a text where the Buddha did this exact same thing calling a monk "a janitor" for being devoted to cleaning.retrofuturist wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:11 am Greetings,
So to use Mike's analogy above, is a monk who sweeps leaves a "broom operator"?
I think your labelling serves no constructive purpose.
Metta,
Paul.
It's probably in the Dhp commentary.
Two monks ordained, one spent his time practicing whereas the other was cleaning a lot & criticizing the meditator.
I think appropriate labeling is very important.