155. Those who in youth have not led the holy life, or have failed to acquire wealth, languish like old cranes in the pond without fish.
156. Those who in youth have not lead the holy life, or have failed to acquire wealth, lie sighing over the past, like worn out arrows (shot from) a bow.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
It may not be in a single sutta. But when you compare information in a few suttas. This is a fact. Like to be celibated or not etc in terms of practice. To be in company with Deva after a death or Nibanna. Even to be husband and wife again next life.
nirodh27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:32 am
The Buddha says to enjoy the wealth and seeing the drawbacks, not get depressed by them. The key is be honest and knowing the escape: by knowing that renunciation is the escape of the Dukkha caused by the instability/unreliabily/peril of the usual kinds of sensual pleasure that we consume (seaside swim, girlfiend) you know that renunciation is always at your hand to save you.
Now I am congfused even more than before. How can renungciation be the escape for the pleasurer seeker?
Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:19 am
I think I know which one you mean. It goes they those who refrain from sensual pleasure but don’t practice Dhamma are the most miserable, or something like that. I’ll have a look when I get home from work.
I hope you managed to get back from work! Jokes aside, would you mind to search for that quotation? Do you remember which nikaya maybe?
Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:19 am
I think I know which one you mean. It goes they those who refrain from sensual pleasure but don’t practice Dhamma are the most miserable, or something like that. I’ll have a look when I get home from work.
I hope you managed to get back from work! Jokes aside, would you mind to search for that quotation? Do you remember which nikaya maybe?
Thank you
It once reminded my person on the commentary by Bhante Thanissaro here and maybe fits the search for, good householder:
It might come as something of a surprise that the Buddha, in this discourse, seems to speak favorably of the lavish enjoyment of sensual pleasures. Taken in light of his teachings in AN 5.41, his remarks here are less surprising. There he points out that the enjoyment of pleasure is one of the legitimate rewards of wealth, although the proper enjoyment of wealth doesn't end there. In this discourse, he speaks of a man who, because of his past kamma, couldn't even enjoy sensual pleasures. This is a useful discourse for illustrating the point that the Buddha's ultimate rejection of sensual pleasure is not that of a man who was too aversive or stingy to enjoy them. Rather, he rejects them because he was capable of enjoying them but realized that this sort of enjoyment was not the path to true happiness.
As for the moneylender mentioned in this discourse, even though his inability to enjoy his wealth can be traced to attitudes in the past, his unwillingness to make merit in this lifetime is not the fault of his past kamma. People are always free to choose to practice the Dhamma at any time. In his case, he chose not to. Thus he got no legitimate use out of his wealth at all.
Like water
in a haunted place
that, without being imbibed,
dries up:
such is the wealth
acquired by a worthless person
who neither enjoys it himself
nor gives.
But one enlightened & knowing,
on acquiring wealth,
enjoys it & performs his duties.
He, a bull among men,
having supported his kin,
without blame
goes to the land of heaven.
Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:19 am
I think I know which one you mean. It goes they those who refrain from sensual pleasure but don’t practice Dhamma are the most miserable, or something like that. I’ll have a look when I get home from work.
I hope you managed to get back from work! Jokes aside, would you mind to search for that quotation? Do you remember which nikaya maybe?
Thank you
I did have a look but I couldn't find it. That was only a quick search though. I'm off work for a bit, so I'll look again when the search function at SuttaCentral returns. I know the one you mean though.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
nirodh27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 7:06 am
Hi everyone, hope everything is going well for you.
I was speaking with a friend two weeks ago and I cited a passage from the Nikayas in which the Buddha speaks of practicing "in the middle" in the sense of practicing the Dhamma and in the meantime pursue sensual pleasures and success. I think he is speaking to a lay follower.
The Buddha responds that by doing so, one cannot conquer the ultimate goals of the holy life and also it cannot conquer the goals of laylife in work, success etc.
But actually... I cannot find the passage! Can the forum help me to find it, if it ever exists. I'm pretty sure that exists in some form.
Thank you very much.
Sorry I really can't find it. If I recall correctly it says something like the person who does not fully renounce yet does not engage in sensual pleasure either is most unfortunate, since they have no joy coming from anywhere. Something like that.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Sorry I really can't find it. If I recall correctly it says something like the person who does not fully renounce yet does not engage in sensual pleasure either is most unfortunate, since they have no joy coming from anywhere. Something like that.
[/quote]
Maybe in the agamas I pretty sure that the passage exists in those terms.
I pretty sure that the passage exists in those terms.
