Rice donation to monks and nuns in Bagan, Myanmar.

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
Post Reply
JoahM
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 6:14 pm

Rice donation to monks and nuns in Bagan, Myanmar.

Post by JoahM »

Dear friends,

It was made aware to me that a supporter posted about the Bagan monastic campaign being conducted by our nonprofit, Better Burma, to this site, and a rigorous discussion ensued. The discussion became so volatile that it was then locked, which prevented me from clarifying some of the pending questions. For this reason, I'm making a new post here, which I hope will lay out our work in greater detail. I hope the following conversation can be civil and respectful. To be honest, I have avoided using this site because of the harsh and inappropriate responses from previous attempts, but I am trying again now. I am happy to respond to any point so long as the conversation remains polite.

First, allow me to lay out the summary of our project. The following passages are copied from our recent newsletter:

"Our local team has been conducting research into the difficulties presently facing monastics in the Bagan region. They uncovered an important link between tourism and Bagan’s monastic community: namely, that many of the monasteries and nunneries have been primarily supported by those working in the tourist industry. So when the pandemic and then the coup drastically curtailed the tourist industry in Myanmar, local supporters were no longer able to provide support as before; giving rise to the present situation where monastics around Bagan are in serious need. As Bagan holds a special place in the country’s history and Buddhist tradition, the current struggles are especially disheartening. In response, Better Burma has launched a Heartland Relief Campaign to raise money to meet this challenge, laying out a detailed plan for what we hope to accomplish.

Our local team coordinator shared his strategy for overseeing the allocation: 'We plan to carry out the donations in 3 gathering points in Old Bagan, New Bagan and Nyaung-U. We will invite all the monks and nuns from the monasteries from a respective area to the respective gathering point. We will donate smaller sacks of 4 Pyis (approximately equivalent to 8.5 kg) of alms-rice to each monk and nun instead of going to all monasteries and nunneries. We believe that this will fairly benefit all the monasteries and nunneries based on their population. Instead of contributing bigger sacks (that contain about 51 kg of rice), it is easier for the monks and nuns to transport smaller quantities back to their lodgings. And, this will also save transportation costs, as we will not need to go monastery by monastery in the various parts of the Bagan region.'”

Next, because I am not smart enough to figure out how to make the relevant sections hyperlinked, I include all six of our needs assessments and previous posts laying out the groundwork for the project:

Monks in Bagan in need of food: https://insightmyanmar.org/blog/2022/5/ ... ed-of-food
Tourism in Bagan: https://insightmyanmar.org/blog/2022/5/ ... m-in-bagan
Raining Gems in Bagan: https://insightmyanmar.org/blog/2022/6/ ... s-in-bagan
Myanmar’s Heartland Relief Campaign: https://insightmyanmar.org/blog/2022/5/ ... f-campaign
Support Bagan's monastics: the Heartland Relief Campaign: https://insightmyanmar.org/blog/2022/5/ ... f-campaign
A $4 rice bag for monastics in Bagan!: https://insightmyanmar.org/blog/2022/6/ ... s-in-bagan

There are some questions about where these funds will really be used for which I will respond to. Firstly, let me assure you that our nonprofit strictly supports only humanitarian, non-violent causes in Myanmar. This is not only an ethical consideration, but a legal one as well. As we are a registered 501(3)c nonprofit in the US, we would be in serious trouble if we allocated funds in this way, and so this has never been, and never will be, a consideration. Concerning this particular campaign, I have actually just been coordinating the arrangements with our local team today. We are sending over some of the donation fund and they are beginning to prepare for the ceremony. Any funds given before the ceremony can be included in the upcoming donation event. We will be hosting a series of donation ceremonies in Bagan as well as in other sites where there are monastic needs in Myanmar, so later donations will be included in this allotment.

I also read some questions about the process of providing rice sacks directly to monks, and if this would constitute a violation of Vinaya. I have shared these concerns with our local team manager, and he has informed me that they will ensure that kappiyas (lay supporters/attendants of monks and nuns) will be present at the ceremony to officially accept the rice. I have copied and pasted his exact words on the matter:

"We can arrange the members of the local communities who are volunteering in this event, to be their Kappiyas and they can receive our donation on their behalf: they will put it in one bigger sacks and send it to the monasteries' kitchens. So, this will help the monks to maintain their Vinaya codes."

In addition, I have consulted other Western monastics about this question, including one Buddhist professor who is an expert on scripture. His response is worth quoting as well:

"In my opinion, dissuading people from donating rice to monks is a much worse thing than the possible breaking of such rules. We can’t be sure of how the monks and lay people will deal with this issue, but they certainly have their ways of doing this, and have for centuries. So, to invoke the Vinaya here in some general, decontextualized way is just unhelpful."

Because we do not wish to deprive monks and nuns of a single grain of rice, we are ensuring the ceremony to follow stricter standards as detailed above, so this particular concern should not be relevant any more. However, it is worth reflecting on, as it indicates the the priorities of one's actions and mental intentions. Our research has shown how monks and nuns across Bagan are not getting proper nutrition due to the military coup and the collapsing economy. At the same time, the donations of rice being offered to them would be handled in a way that is in accordance with traditional, standard, Burmese Buddhist society and customs. To encourage others to withhold donations because of a concern that the structures of Burmese Buddhist society do not follow the last letter of Vinaya, is to cast aside an entire Buddhist culture and to forgo donation on any scale to monastics living there. Additionally, one monks advised me to research the Vinaya codes in times of famine and scarcity, when greater allowances are made. I have not been able to do so yet, but this is another consideration to take in mind, as monastics are indeed facing extreme conditions at present. Yet, again, I remind that this conversation is strictly theoretical, as I assure any potential donor that our local team will be giving the rice to lay attendants.

On that note, I do hope this thread will not descend into endless theoretical arguments. Intellectual discussions aside, our nonprofit is doing the best we can with extremely limited resources to fill this gap. For those not appraised on the current situation in Myanmar, please know that even the very work of conducting these basic needs assessments and learning about the updated conditions in monasteries, nunneries, monastic schools, and meditation centers brings along very real risks, and if not careful, could result in imprisonment or worse by the military authorities, who would regard this as suspicious snooping around. In fact, I am not aware of any other group who is providing this level of detail about how monastics have been faring since the coup, likely for this reason. We apologize for any imperfections in our work that critics may have under these extremely difficult circumstances.
sunnat
Posts: 1431
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:08 am

Re: Rice donation to monks and nuns in Bagan, Myanmar.

Post by sunnat »

Thank you for this posting.
User avatar
Johann
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Rice donation to monks and nuns in Bagan, Myanmar.

Post by Johann »

Sadhu, Sadhu for careful undertakings and endurance, good householder.

To make the best out of one's sacrifices, as coordinations are always burdensome and full of dangers to fall into unskilful states, as controlling oneself is already hard, good to try to give all with own hand, and maybe invite people near to take part on the merits, maybe even by letting them serve alms food as all other often would be carried away (which of course doesn't limit the donors deeds, but opens dangers for those not so strong).

And, what ever is a privat undertaking, not underlying the dangers of being suspected, makes one more free to give, wouldn't require much shares on the way to reach itjs object.

And don't call your self "better world", as such makes those nervous who hold or like to hold control over it, but do it as someone with faith.

It's also importand, against the western and modern ways which are destructive and after destruction of dependencies and sociaties, that if thinking to support "children" to give to the gandfather "this is for you to support your children, grandfather knowns better how and where to share".

Good to invite the worldly authorities to take part on the merits and good to approach then the fathers of the Sangha(s).

It's maybe difficult to turn ones position from "I am a helper of poor" to "I do and enchourage to take part on giving toward those worthy of gifts", who ever likes to take part on my good undertakings, by mind, speech, deeds, material, please feel invited.
Things one does, one does either for one's good or one's bad.

And yes, total right, after having careful considered what one can do, what the receiver will do or whether able to accept or carry, that one could leave to him. If perceiving in progress that so and so seems to be easier for the receiver, thats place for additional merits then. Never, if in skilful mood, let one be discouraged by thoughts of possible burdens... but just start and see what then to do next. That also means not to collect with string, attached to a promise and success of that. Such one could hardly garant for ddeds solvely in his spheres in regard of an outwardly target.

So simly "I am undertaking merits toward the Sangha, feel free to take part, if by means, I will try to carry it there as well".
User13866
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:50 am

Re: Rice donation to monks and nuns in Bagan, Myanmar.

Post by User13866 »

JoahM wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:37 pm I have copied and pasted his exact words on the matter:
"We can arrange the members of the local communities who are volunteering in this event, to be their Kappiyas and they can receive our donation on their behalf: they will put it in one bigger sacks and send it to the monasteries' kitchens. So, this will help the monks to maintain their Vinaya codes."
This is good and i am glad arrangements will be made. Vinaya can't stop where hunger begins.

Will be happy to assist and encourage others to do so.

Seven gifts to the Saṅgha

“But there are, Ānanda, seven gifts given to the Saṅgha.2 What seven? 

“One gives a gift to the communities of both monks and nuns headed by the Buddha. This is the first gift given to the Saṅgha.

“One gives a gift to the communities of both monks and nuns after the Supreme Buddha has attained final Nibbāna. This is the second gift given to the Saṅgha.

“One gives a gift to a community of monks. This is the third gift given to the Saṅgha.

“One gives a gift to a community of nuns. This is the fourth gift given to the Saṅgha.

“One gives a gift, requesting: ‘Appoint this many monks and nuns for me from the community.’ This is the fifth gift given to the Saṅgha.

“One gives a gift, requesting: ‘Appoint this many monks for me from the community.’ This is the sixth gift given to the Saṅgha.

“One gives a gift, requesting: ‘Appoint this many nuns for me from the community.’ This is the seventh gift given to the Saṅgha.

“Ānanda, in times to come there will be immoral people wearing robes in the guise of good monks. But they are unvirtuous and of bad character. People will give gifts to those unvirtuous people in the name of the Saṅgha. Even then, Ānanda, I say, a gift given in the name of the Saṅgha is incalculable and immeasurable. Therefore, Ānanda, I say that there is no way a gift given to an individual can be more fruitful than giving a gift to the Saṅgha.
https://suttafriends.org/sutta/mn142/
"Having given this, not seeking his own profit, not with a mind attached [to the reward], not seeking to store up for himself, nor [with the thought], 'I'll enjoy this after death,'

" — nor with the thought, 'Giving is good,'

" — nor with the thought, 'This was given in the past, done in the past, by my father & grandfather. It would not be right for me to let this old family custom be discontinued,'

" — nor with the thought, 'I am well-off. These are not well-off. It would not be right for me, being well-off, not to give a gift to those who are not well-off,' nor with the thought, 'Just as there were the great sacrifices of the sages of the past — Atthaka, Vamaka, Vamadeva, Vessamitta, Yamataggi, Angirasa, Bharadvaja, Vasettha, Kassapa, & Bhagu — in the same way this will be my distribution of gifts,'

" — nor with the thought, 'When this gift of mine is given, it makes the mind serene. Gratification & joy arise,'

" — but with the thought, 'This is an ornament for the mind, a support for the mind' — on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of Brahma's Retinue. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a non-returner. He does not come back to this world.

"This, Sariputta, is the cause, this is the reason, why a person gives a gift of a certain sort and it does not bear great fruit or great benefit, whereas another person gives a gift of the same sort and it bears great fruit and great benefit."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Approaching them [monks], I will ask, ‘Venerable sirs, did the master [Buddha] ever come to Sāvatthī?’

If they tell me that he did come to Sāvatthī, then I will conclude that ‘Undoubtedly the master used a rains-bathing cloth of mine, or a meal for newcomers, or a meal for those going away, or a meal for the sick, or a meal for those tending the sick, or medicine for the sick, or gruel gifted every day.’

For me, recollecting that, joy will be born. When joyful, rapture will be born. When the heart is rapturous, the body becomes tranquil. When the body is tranquil, I will experience happiness. When I am happy, the mind will become composed

That will be the development of my (five) faculties, (five) strengths, and (seven) factors of enlightenment.

- Visākhāvatthu
User avatar
Lucas Oliveira
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Rice donation to monks and nuns in Bagan, Myanmar.

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

Donation to nunneries in Pyin Oo Lwin

https://insightmyanmar.org/blog/2022/10 ... in-oo-lwin


:anjali:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
Post Reply