Where would Echolocation & Sense of Balance fit into sense organs?

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Alex123
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Where would Echolocation & Sense of Balance fit into sense organs?

Post by Alex123 »

Hello all,

Where would sense of echolocation & sense of balance fit in the classification of sense organs and sense spheres (ayatana)?


Thanks.
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mjaviem
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Re: Where would Echolocation & Sense of Balance fit into sense organs?

Post by mjaviem »

Good question.

Leaving dolphins and bats aside, where sense of balance fit into the sense bases? Is it part of the mind base or the body? Or is it a sense base not considered by the Buddha? What is the object being sensed here? The body? A concept (of position in space)? Good question. Whatever the correct answer is I'm sure sense of balance should be regarded as anicca, dukkha, and anatta.
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Re: Where would Echolocation & Sense of Balance fit into sense organs?

Post by DNS »

Echolocation is used by bats and some other animals, sometimes in total darkness; so appears to be a form of "sight" for them, by navigating their movements.

Balance sounds like it would be related to the body.
dharmacorps
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Re: Where would Echolocation & Sense of Balance fit into sense organs?

Post by dharmacorps »

The question makes some assumptions, that all senses have a exact physical location, which is probably not completely true. For instance, scientists can't say much of anything about "where" conciousness exists. Or much about it. It is an experience, not a sense organ.
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robertk
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Re: Where would Echolocation & Sense of Balance fit into sense organs?

Post by robertk »

Kāya-viññatti is the physical expression of intent to show or move.

When I am riding a horse I continually and purposefully adjust my posture (mostly by keeping still) to aid the horse. Or you point at something - that is kāya-viññatti and is conditioned by citta.
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Re: Where would Echolocation & Sense of Balance fit into sense organs?

Post by pegembara »

Sense balance would fit into tactile/motion sense or the wind element.
Echolocation seems a combination of sights and (actively produced) sounds but more towards sights since it is doubtful that bats passively listen in on conversations or music. It is doubtful even that bats can appreciate the beauty of mountains and lakes.

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Re: Where would Echolocation & Sense of Balance fit into sense organs?

Post by Bundokji »

I guess its the perception of the external that functions as a balancing effect to the internal. Sense organs are not a thing without sense objects. This would be inline with evolutionary perspective. The aggregates evolve to fit in a certain environment.
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allium
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Re: Where would Echolocation & Sense of Balance fit into sense organs?

Post by allium »

Echolocation and balance are both complex functions of the whole organism. The sense organs wich are involved:
echolocation: ears
balance: several bodily sense organs + eyes
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Sam Vara
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Re: Where would Echolocation & Sense of Balance fit into sense organs?

Post by Sam Vara »

Echolocation is a form of hearing. Even humans use it, albeit without conscious intent most of the time. We judge the size and type of space we are in by the echo returned by the walls. Some blind people tap with a stick or make clicking noises to help them with this. Amazingly, some bats have evolved so that when they make the sound which is returned to them, a muscle closes their ear for the duration so that they don't hear their own "ping".

Sense of balance would I guess be a form of bodily awareness.
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Alex123
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Re: Where would Echolocation & Sense of Balance fit into sense organs?

Post by Alex123 »

thank you all for your replies.

I hope that Dhamma allows multiple sense organs to produce a complex sense perception like echolocation & sense of balance.
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